Who should be Wichita State's Head Coach?

[Ashockalypse]

Why didn’t Griffin want to be a Shocker as a player when we needed him?

[Atxshoxfan]

Why didn’t Griffin want to be a Shocker as a player when we needed him?

It was 92-96, nobody wanted to play for the shox back then.

[Shockm]

It was 92-96, nobody wanted to play for the shox back then.

Actually, what I heard was that Cohen was recruiting Griffin, and Craig Duerksen from Hillsboro, and almost no other Div. 1 schools were. After Cohen was fired, he was angry, and went to Seton Hall with the information that they could play. Even though Wichita (Scott Thompson) continued to recruit them, Seton Hall jumped in and signed them. Griffin worked out for SH but Duerksen transferred back to Hutch Juco after one year. Then Duerksen transferred from Hutch to Northwestern after one year.

[Woodrow]

I don't completely understand the hesitation about Mark Turgeon. I've said this before and I will say it again. I think more folks would be positive if he HADN'T ever coached at WSU. Just imagine if he would have taken a team from a similar program in a similar conference to a Sweet 16 before he went to Texas A&M and Maryland. And remember how tough the MVC was during his entire tenure.

MT was here 7 years and we went to 1 NCAA tournament and made the sweet sixteen. GM was here 13 years and we went to 7 NCAA tournaments and it likely would have been 8 in the 13th year but for Covid shutting it down, 1 of those years we made the sweet sixteen and 1 we made the final 4. He also won the NIT and was in the NIT final 4. He did all that while starting his first year with a pretty bad team after MT left. Nothing against MT but Saal needs to go out and find the next GM as difficult as that may be.

[AndShock]

MT was here 7 years and we went to 1 NCAA tournament and made the sweet sixteen. GM was here 13 years and we went to 7 NCAA tournaments and it likely would have been 8 in the 13th year but for Covid shutting it down, 1 of those years we made the sweet sixteen and 1 we made the final 4. He also won the NIT and was in the NIT final 4. He did all that while starting his first year with a pretty bad team after MT left. Nothing against MT but Saal needs to go out and find the next GM as difficult as that may be.

Gregg Marshall doesn’t come here if Turgeon hadn’t built the program back up. The next Gregg Marshall isn’t coming here…right now…but maybe if Turgeon builds the program back up…

[Dan]

Gregg Marshall doesn’t come here if Turgeon hadn’t built the program back up. The next Gregg Marshall isn’t coming here…right now…but maybe if Turgeon builds the program back up…

Yes, Turgeon’s re-build was the much more difficult task.

[ShockHat]

Gregg Marshall doesn’t come here if Turgeon hadn’t built the program back up. The next Gregg Marshall isn’t coming here…right now…but maybe if Turgeon builds the program back up…

I don’t think that the good times are so far gone that coaches won’t see the opportunity here. I think this program could have a quick turnaround especially if a home run hire gets NIL going

[Shock Top]

Actually, what I heard was that Cohen was recruiting Griffin, and Craig Duerksen from Hillsboro, and almost no other Div. 1 schools were. After Cohen was fired, he was angry, and went to Seton Hall with the information that they could play. Even though Wichita (Scott Thompson) continued to recruit them, Seton Hall jumped in and signed them. Griffin worked out for SH but Duerksen transferred back to Hutch Juco after one year. Then Duerksen transferred from Hutch to Northwestern after one year.

Heard something similar.

Speaks a lot about him.

[ShockingButTrue]

Gregg Marshall doesn’t come here if Turgeon hadn’t built the program back up. The next Gregg Marshall isn’t coming here…right now…but maybe if Turgeon builds the program back up…

You're right about one thing and that's that Turg ain't retiring in Wichita. Turg, like Fogler before him, didn't seem happy on the sideline at WSU. Who's surprised either left for greener grass? The best GGG could do his first year here was 11 wins. That's what was left in the cupboard.

If GGG had known that the Valley was in fact not going to be a multiple bid league, as he speculated, would he have still come to Wichita? The entire Valley had a good few years at that time.

[Shockm]

Yes, Turgeon’s re-build was the much more difficult task.

Much more difficult? Arguing over this is counter-productive because both have merit, and Turgeon deserves a lot of credit. However, a F4 finish, #1 or #2 ranking, a #1 Seed, and 34-0 undefeated regular season is quite a steep hill to climb, and is rarified air.

[Eric]

You're right about one thing and that's that Turg ain't retiring in Wichita. Turg, like Fogler before him, didn't seem happy on the sideline at WSU. Who's surprised either left for greener grass? The best GGG could do his first year here was 11 wins. That's what was left in the cupboard.

If GGG had known that the Valley was in fact not going to be a multiple bid league, as he speculated, would he have still come to Wichita? The entire Valley had a good few years at that time.

Eh. Turgeon didn’t seem too happy at Maryland either. Maybe it’s not a Wichita problem, but more of a Turg problem.

[ShockingButTrue]

Eh. Turgeon didn’t seem too happy at Maryland either. Maybe it’s not a Wichita problem, but more of a Turg problem.

Well, I didn't want to be too hard on the guy.

They booed him at Maryland for that same reason (looking like he'd rather be somewhere else), most probably. He left.

[Woodrow]

Gregg Marshall doesn’t come here if Turgeon hadn’t built the program back up. The next Gregg Marshall isn’t coming here…right now…but maybe if Turgeon builds the program back up…

MT left the program in a bad place. GM had to basically start from scratch. MT went 8 and 14 to end the year. Lost the first round game in the Valley tournament. We had a losing record in the conference. GM single handedly built us back up and got us into the AAC. The HC job at WSU is a better gig than when Marshall took it. Saal needs to go get us another Marshall.

[shockerfan]

MT left the program in a bad place. GM had to basically start from scratch. MT went 8 and 14 to end the year. Lost the first round game in the Valley tournament. We had a losing record in the conference. GM single handedly built us back up and got us into the AAC. The HC job at WSU is a better gig than when Marshall took it. Saal needs to go get us another Marshall.

Even with the cupboard bare the PROGRAM was in much better shape when Turgeon left than when he came in.

Both coaches elevated the program from when they took it over.

But this job was much more attractive thanks to Turgeon.

Marshall had to rebuild a team, but he didn't have to rebuild the program. Although he did elevate it to much greater heights.

Just like we may never see another FVV in our program. We may never see another Marshall either. Doesn't mean we can't try, but he is the greatest coach of all time at Wichita State for a reason. Not gonna just replace that.

[WuDrWu]

I haven't been here for some time, but I wanted to point out the situation about Heiar, but as usual, you guys were all over it. I also hope IB gets the boot and we get a better coach, not that it matters, but I'm OK with either of the two (or three) names most frequently mentioned. IB is just 'too nice' and he probably should have developed a little fire in his belly.

I saw something like this when I worked for one of the largest insurers in the world. We had a very strong-willed CEO who surrounded himself with soft 'yes' men (only way they could survive) and when one of the soft 'yes' men was elevated (after the strong-willed guy's demise), the company cratered around him due to a lack of awareness on the successor's part.

From my view, what I'm seeing around this team reminds me a lot of that experience. Soft 'go-along-to-get-along' guy experiences initial success (with the old guy's recruits) but ultimately fails after his recruits take advantage of his softness.

I'll keep watching and hope for the best but if he can't win after three years and the trajectory is downward, we would eventually get to the depth of the downside risk with IB even if we hire someone like a Cohen. Seems like the downside is risk-neutral and now that we're in the AAC, we ought to be able to either get someone who is a rising star or get an experienced coach who can at least get the program righted.

Gotta be honest, not missed.

I’m sure you been busy though auditing the world’s most powerful and influential stock traders that went broke after they didn’t listen to your sage advice.

Keep on truckin’ brutha.