Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

[SB Shock]

I think for most, it's not a matter of whether something happened, or condoning or not condoning what happened, but the context in which it happened, the severity (or lack there of), and the timing.

Marshall is on the record of saying it never happened. He didn't hit Shaq and didn't choke Lindstead.

Don't know how Marshall keeps his job if he is proven to be a liar.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

A bit of information on Ty Taylor, none of which is meant to be negative, simply information.

Wichita Eagle: “No hard feelings on either side,” he said. “I’m leaving on good terms.” “I’d like to thank this outstanding program for contributing to my growth and development,” he said on his Twitter account. “I will forever be grateful for my experience spent as a Shocker.”

After setting out for a year, he went to UNC Wilmington where he was a regular his sophomore year, playing almost 30 mpg and 13.6 ppg. In his junior year, he still played in 33 games, but minutes dropped to 14.4 and 5 ppg. He transferred as a 5th year senior to Eastern Kentucky, played 30.7 mpg and 12.3 ppg.

I find it interesting to go back and look at postings on Shockernet from the time. Here's a link to the thread from when Taylor transferred - https://shockernet.net/forum/wichita...s-transferring - and most of the initial posts are wondering if it has to do about playing time. However, post #44 brings up a tweet from Shaq at the time followed by some other posts about the tweet, which explains things given what we know now.

It's also interesting to search the Sunflower for any articles. They have one on his recruitment - https://thesunflower.com/4454/specia...ake-an-impact/ - and this part is interesting in showing which teams WSU has beat can play into a recruitment:

Originally, Taylor was prepared to commit to Texas but decided it wasn’t the best school for him.

When the recruitment process first started with WSU, Taylor said it was temporary to keep his options open. However, coming to Wichita was never too far from his mind.

Taylor frequently watched games on television and made the decision to later become a Shocker.

It all started when Taylor watched the WSU vs. KU game last season.

“I remember I was on spring break … and I was going crazy on my couch because since I’m from Missouri I didn’t like KU, anyway. I was just too happy to see WSU win,” he said.

[N Crestway]

So I underlined every phrase where I either disagree with you or where you don't bring facts.

I have said a number of times I'm going to wait until the report is rendered, but my feeling is that this is a great job and we can find a good coach if it comes to that. i don't think this is anything to get depressed about. What is true, though, is there will be a lot of pressure on Boatwright to get this right, if it comes down to finding a new coach.

As for the sportswriters, I'm not sure they researched their article sufficiently, but if they did, what would you say? Bobby Knight got called out. Woody Hayes was one of the first to ever get called out. They both got fired and both were legendary coaches, so it is possible this could have happened and it is also possible Marshall could lose his job. I'm just skeptical about what has been reported. Most of the time, things are not black and white, but rather shades of grey. That's why I'm waiting for the report. I suspect we have heard one side of the story played out in the press, it's really ugly, but there may be another side to this story as well that is being ignored because it doesn't lead to click bait.



But there's no reason to worry, unless you do not believe in either the University or the basketball program.

"IF most of what we've read is true, at the very least, there should be a requirement to attend anger management classes and work with a therapist. It should be written into his contract and he should be fired for non-compliance. I believe in the opportunity for atonement unless the side we've heard so far is an actual rendering of the facts. In that case, he should probably go."

Atonement, therapy, and a new contract that sights compliance make sense even if all the allegations are true. I suspect the allegations regarding racism were way over hyped and were made to capitalize on the current political climate. Admittedly Marshall's claim that he has never touched players, etc, was a dumb move and causes me to wonder if he really will change.

[ShockAzs]

For those wondering "why now" for Shaq, consider taking a second look at this. When someone is a victim of abuse, verbal or physical, the victim will often blame themselves, especially when the abuser is in a position of power. Maybe Shaq told himself he deserved to be punched, or that since Gregg didn't hit any other player, that it was only his fault.

Fast forward to now, and he hears these stories of Marshall's actions after he leaves. It's a realization that Gregg's actions weren't only a reflection of him, but rather the kind of coach he is.

Abuse victim? Wow. This is bonkers.

[ShockTalk]

Some of you guys beating your chests about how tough you are and how soft and wimpy kids are is really getting tiresome. It's not just this thread, it's others. It's the generational debate in general. It's most boomers taking every opportunity to remind us of how awesome they think they are and how awful they think kids are. In my life I've found anyone who goes to such lengths to boast about how tough and strong they are is actually a little wimp inside crying for attention.

It makes me wish some of you would meet someone younger than you in a dark alley and get your ass absolutely handed to you. Just destroyed. It won't cause you to shut up, but it would make the rest of us smile.

Some people are self motivating, some are not. Some are too self-driven, others can't get out of bed by themselves. Some people realize they are not self-motivated, but want something bad enough to accept stronger motivation in different forms. Some work at trying to find exactly what they want out of life, others look for what life will hand them. Some work hard enough at what they want, they make up for the things that would be considered weaknesses. Others are gifted in special ways that they have little motivation to utilize (that is not necessarily a bad statement).

There were past times, if you didn't work at things hard enough, you simply wouldn't survive. Today, things may seem less harsh growing up, but I question someone who would rely on that.

[ShockTalk]

Marshall is on the record of saying it never happened. He didn't hit Shaq and didn't choke Lindstead.

Don't know how Marshall keeps his job if he is proven to be a liar.

That, sir, is above my pay grade. Time will tell. I still feel Marshall, Lindsted, and Shaq all threw fair amounts of fuel on the fire. Anyone of them backed off on that fuel, nothing happens.

[SB Shock]

That, sir, is above my pay grade. Time will tell. I still feel Marshall, Lindsted, and Shaq all threw fair amounts of fuel on the fire. Anyone of them backed off on that fuel, nothing happens.

I think like your post above said - there is possibly a lot of "context" between what really happened with Shaq. Not sure how you spin the Linstead thing - maybe he was pulling a Michael Scott and pretending Linstead was Toby.

I'm just surprised he did come out and made the declaration - that seems to have drawn a line in the sand and not giving much wiggle room.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Some people are self motivating, some are not. Some are too self-driven, others can't get out of bed by themselves. Some people realize they are not self-motivated, but want something bad enough to accept stronger motivation in different forms. Some work at trying to find exactly what they want out of life, others look for what life will hand them. Some work hard enough at what they want, they make up for the things that would be considered weaknesses. Others are gifted in special ways that they have little motivation to utilize (that is not necessarily a bad statement).

There were past times, if you didn't work at things hard enough, you simply wouldn't survive. Today, things may seem less harsh growing up, but I question someone who would rely on that.

I agree with that. There were plenty of underachievers in generations passed, as you mention. Not everyone was a winner. But I see the same in today's generation. I know plenty of younger folks who are hard workers, driven, motivated, and successful. I see plenty of lazy bums as well. Life will sort them out. Still, the almost constant "Look at me, I'm a super tough badass and you're a wimpy schmuck" mentality of some is getting ridiculous. Yes, we know you walked both ways uphill in the snow, but stop insisting you are the only ones capable of doing it.

[ShockTalk]

I think like your post above said - there is possibly a lot of "context" between what really happened with Shaq. Not sure how you spin the Linstead thing - maybe he was pulling a Michael Scott and pretending Linstead was Toby.

I'm just surprised he did come out and made the declaration - that seems to have drawn a line in the sand and not giving much wiggle room.

Lindsted has not commented. Just how much do we really know about the cause of the situation? I suppose you could say that doesn't matter, but just maybe it could.

Totally agree with you on the line having been drawn in the sand.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Just thought I'd throw this information out there in case anyone else was wondering about similar things and needed links to the information:

1 - Marshall's 2015 contract is out there on the web but I couldn't find the 2007 amendment, but ran across a site with it due to a Freedom of Information Act by someone in October 2017. Not sure who the person is who did the request, but looking at his profile he has requested contracts on numerous coaches, including Sean Miller at the same time, and Bruce Weber and some other coaches in March 2018. Anyway, the original contract from 2015 and the amendment from July 2017 can be found at https://www.muckrock.com/foi/kansas-...ontract-44401/ - both are interesting reads if you haven't seen them. For example, section 8.2.2 says any buyout can be paid in equal amounts over 3 years (for example, a $15 million buyout paid out in the form of $5 million per year) and section 8.3 says if Marshall takes another job during the payout period, the payout amount would be reduced by the amount he receives from other employment.

2 - the Wichita Business Journal has some good articles from 2015 regarding the contract and how things worked out. Here's a link to a date range of articles from April to October in 2015 - https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/...l&pl=1&godate= - the one from April regarding the donor meeting and the one in October on how Marshall gets paid have some good information. I think the Wichita Business Journal lets you read something like some articles for free for a month, so I think you should be able to still read them if you don't have a subscription.

[SB Shock]

Lindsted has not commented. Just how much do we really know about the cause of the situation? I suppose you could say that doesn't matter, but just maybe it could.

Totally agree with you on the line having been drawn in the sand.

I agree. We don't know anything really beyond the allegation and it could go away. He was asked about it and provided a "no comment". That is a strange response if it didn't happen unless there were some circumstances that didn't permit him to say anything (like a settlement or part of the investigation).

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

I just happened to be listening to a podcast this weekend of Joe Rogan talking to Matthew McConaughey. It's actually a pretty good discussion on various things, but they have an interesting discussion about physical punishment, mainly how parents years ago would discipline children and ending up with how one has to remember it's a generation thing so future generation may not understand. For anyone who's interested in it, here's a link to the YouTube video and their discussion is from the 12 minute to 16 minute mark - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBCl9A9NlRw

[shockfan89_]

I agree. We don't know anything really beyond the allegation and it could go away. He was asked about it and provided a "no comment". That is a strange response if it didn't happen unless there were some circumstances that didn't permit him to say anything (like a settlement or part of the investigation).

I posted this earlier in a different thread. Although we really don't know anything beyond the allegations, it seems very odd that HCGM would go on record and deny that anything occurred when the The Eagle reported the following information:

"The most serious allegations come from former WSU player Shaquille Morris, who told Stadium that Marshall punched him in the head during an October 2015 practice and that he saw Marshall attempt to choke former assistant coach Kyle Lindsted. Five other players from WSU’s 2015-16 team have independently confirmed to The Eagle that Marshall hit Morris, while eight other players from the 2016-17 team have confirmed to The Eagle that Marshall put his hand around Lindsted’s throat."

The 2015-16 team has 6 players that have independently confirmed to The Eagle that Marshall hit Morris
The 2016-17 team has 9 players that have independently confirmed to The Eagle that Marshall put his hand around Lindsted's throat.

[Stickboy46]

Just thought I'd throw this information out there in case anyone else was wondering about similar things and needed links to the information:

1 - Marshall's 2015 contract is out there on the web but I couldn't find the 2007 amendment, but ran across a site with it due to a Freedom of Information Act by someone in October 2017. Not sure who the person is who did the request, but looking at his profile he has requested contracts on numerous coaches, including Sean Miller at the same time, and Bruce Weber and some other coaches in March 2018. Anyway, the original contract from 2015 and the amendment from July 2017 can be found at https://www.muckrock.com/foi/kansas-...ontract-44401/ - both are interesting reads if you haven't seen them. For example, section 8.2.2 says any buyout can be paid in equal amounts over 3 years (for example, a $15 million buyout paid out in the form of $5 million per year) and section 8.3 says if Marshall takes another job during the payout period, the payout amount would be reduced by the amount he receives from other employment.

2 - the Wichita Business Journal has some good articles from 2015 regarding the contract and how things worked out. Here's a link to a date range of articles from April to October in 2015 - https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/...l&pl=1&godate= - the one from April regarding the donor meeting and the one in October on how Marshall gets paid have some good information. I think the Wichita Business Journal lets you read something like some articles for free for a month, so I think you should be able to still read them if you don't have a subscription.

I find it interesting that they added the "fine" language in the amendment.

[Dan]

It appears the $15 million buyout is only relevant if he is terminated without "good cause". Therein lies the lawyering that is currently happening. You really have to dig into paragraph 7 to determine whether the allegations are good cause for termination.