Will Scooter be named permanent head coach?

[ShockTalk]

Lutz was also mentioning Miner's dad on his show yesterday. Paraphrasing: said something to Lutz personally about how many guys were going to leave regardless.

Also worth mentioning several of those guys who had their portal tweets yesterday specifically mentioned the coaching change - basically signaling that was the only reason they were leaving.

So, as with everything, it's a mixed boat.

Just shows you don’t make coaching hires on retaining or not retaining players.

Doesn't that somewhat depend on who was leaving and who would have stayed?

Not taking a side here, just spit ballin'.

A team goes 21-36 the previous year. The next season, goes 30-25 under an interim coach (was 26-16 at one point).

In the first couple of days of the portal, 6 players go into the portal (only 1 of real consequence) prior to the coach / AD meeting regarding possibly making the interim coach permanent. The decision to not retain the interim coach (a Shocker legacy) is made and a mass exodus quickly follows.

Would waiting a few more days for that AD/coach meeting make a real difference? Now, unless a real home run of a hire is made, we're probably in a 1–2-year building mode with no guarantee of any real success anyway.

[WstateU]

Either Tolle is extremely loyal, getting great NIL, or waiting on something... he is the last major Domino left to fall.

I know we have/had outstanding young men in the program and from what I've heard, there's none better than Payton Tolle. This comment isn't intended to be a swipe at any of the departing players; I'm sure they all have legitimate reasons for leaving. The college sports landscape has changed, and I dream of the day when players will AGAIN play for the name on the front of the jersey.

[BostonWu]

Saal might be on the hot seat.

Early candidate for dumbest post of the year.

[ShockerExpress]

Doesn't that somewhat depend on who was leaving and who would have stayed?

Not taking a side here, just spit ballin'.

A team goes 21-36 the previous year. The next season, goes 30-25 under an interim coach (was 26-16 at one point).

In the first couple of days of the portal, 6 players go into the portal (only 1 of real consequence) prior to the coach / AD meeting regarding possibly making the interim coach permanent. The decision to not retain the interim coach (a Shocker legacy) is made and a mass exodus quickly follows.

Would waiting a few more days for that AD/coach meeting make a real difference? Now, unless a real home run of a hire is made, we're probably in a 1–2-year building mode with no guarantee of any real success anyway.

Had this same thought.

However - Look at basketball under IB - everyone stayed the first year, then left after his second. Nothing is guaranteed roster-wise.

BUT - the coaching change will likely have a significant negative impact on next year's roster and perhaps a year or two further.

FWIW.

[shockerofandover0943]

Early candidate for dumbest post of the year.

Did you miss the rest of the post? I figured when I claimed that this open position had already been filled and named our coach “TBD” the sarcasm would be obvious. It was in response to the sky is falling responses about winning, recruiting, and fundraising through the day yesterday.

[Stickboy46]

[BostonWu]

Did you miss the rest of the post? I figured when I claimed that this open position had already been filled and named our coach “TBD” the sarcasm would be obvious. It was in response to the sky is falling responses about winning, recruiting, and fundraising through the day yesterday.

Mea culpa. I read several social media posts saying fire Saal, which boggles my mind.

[Stickboy46]

Mea culpa. I read several social media posts saying fire Saal, which boggles my mind.

Yea, we really won't have any sort of data for that with Saal until 2-3 years from now.

Though in 3 years we could have a lot of hot seats with the way things are shaking out. Gotta hope it's just the opposite.

[WstateU]

A 'First Class' response from FHCLH...

[WuDrWu]

1) Some players were going to leave because they weren't playing. Doesn't matter who the coach was or wasn't.

2) Some players are leaving because the Coach wasn't retained.

3) Some players are leaving for NIL deals or a combo of 2 and 3.


You aren't stopping the 1s.

You basically aren't stopping the 3s or are there people here donating tens of thousands to AS? Also, is a new coach going to fix that? (Answer:NO)

You're left with 2 which was preventable (and a reason a good number of kids are leaving).


And I don't get the argument that somehow starting over is better. If a bad last month is so bad you have to make a change.....how are you going to feel about 15-40 next season? Because that is HAPPENING.

Even if a buy into the premise...."Keep the mediocre status quo, hopefully get lucky with some talent and recruits and have a good year and make the dance with an average coaching staff".....how is that WORSE than

Blow up the program, bring in a guy who could be great or horrible, we have no idea, completely rebuild the team and program and alienate the vast majority if not ALL of the alumni base and struggle MIGHTILY for at least a year or 2 and quite possibly until you fire him and hire the NEXT guy.

You just fired 2 guys in your OWN Hall of Fame for going 30-25 with no warning.

In all seriousness...WHAT IN THE ACTUAL ****?

Here's the thing. It's OUR program, not his and I don't think he gets that.

[Shock Top]

I was 100% committed to dating Margot Robbie.

Unfortunately, despite my desire, she didn't know I existed.

[ShockerExpress]

1) Some players were going to leave because they weren't playing. Doesn't matter who the coach was or wasn't.

2) Some players are leaving because the Coach wasn't retained.

3) Some players are leaving for NIL deals or a combo of 2 and 3.


You aren't stopping the 1s.

You basically aren't stopping the 3s or are there people here donating tens of thousands to AS? Also, is a new coach going to fix that? (Answer:NO)

You're left with 2 which was preventable (and a reason a good number of kids are leaving).


And I don't get the argument that somehow starting over is better. If a bad last month is so bad you have to make a change.....how are you going to feel about 15-40 next season? Because that is HAPPENING.

Even if a buy into the premise...."Keep the mediocre status quo, hopefully get lucky with some talent and recruits and have a good year and make the dance with an average coaching staff".....how is that WORSE than

Blow up the program, bring in a guy who could be great or horrible, we have no idea, completely rebuild the team and program and alienate the vast majority if not ALL of the alumni base and struggle MIGHTILY for at least a year or 2 and quite possibly until you fire him and hire the NEXT guy.

You just fired 2 guys in your OWN Hall of Fame for going 30-25 with no warning.

In all seriousness...WHAT IN THE ACTUAL ****?

Here's the thing. It's OUR program, not his and I don't think he gets that.

This post makes it seem like Hibbs was hired to be the full time coach with a contract and then had the chair pulled out from under him.

That’s just not true.

I can’t agree that he was owed anything other than consideration, and I have no reason to believe he wasn’t given that.

I don’t ever agree with Bob Lutz on anything but he posted this on Twitter this morning and I agree with it wholeheartedly:

”As I said and wrote yesterday, not bringing back Hibbs was undoubtedly a difficult decision. Those who think this was a slam dunk either way just aren't living in the real world.”

Maybe it’s not the best decision for next year - but for 3-4 years from now? It very well could be. I certainly could be talked into it. Won’t really ever know for sure, but there’s evidence both directions.

The program doesn’t belong to anyone, imo. It exists with the purpose to win games and make Regionals. And that hasn’t happened in a very long time.

Tired of a lot of the pro-Hibbs people making this seem keeping LH was an obvious choice. I don’t see how it was obvious.

He wasn’t owed the HCing job and I’m not sure he earned it.

[SubGod22]

1) Some players were going to leave because they weren't playing. Doesn't matter who the coach was or wasn't.

2) Some players are leaving because the Coach wasn't retained.

3) Some players are leaving for NIL deals or a combo of 2 and 3.


You aren't stopping the 1s.

You basically aren't stopping the 3s or are there people here donating tens of thousands to AS? Also, is a new coach going to fix that? (Answer:NO)

You're left with 2 which was preventable (and a reason a good number of kids are leaving).


And I don't get the argument that somehow starting over is better. If a bad last month is so bad you have to make a change.....how are you going to feel about 15-40 next season? Because that is HAPPENING.

Even if a buy into the premise...."Keep the mediocre status quo, hopefully get lucky with some talent and recruits and have a good year and make the dance with an average coaching staff".....how is that WORSE than

Blow up the program, bring in a guy who could be great or horrible, we have no idea, completely rebuild the team and program and alienate the vast majority if not ALL of the alumni base and struggle MIGHTILY for at least a year or 2 and quite possibly until you fire him and hire the NEXT guy.

You just fired 2 guys in your OWN Hall of Fame for going 30-25 with no warning.

In all seriousness...WHAT IN THE ACTUAL ****?

Here's the thing. It's OUR program, not his and I don't think he gets that.

I love ya Doc, but I have some issues with this.

If Hibbs wasn't a former player, nobody would be so distraught over him not being retained.

I know that I don't follow the baseball program as closely as some of you, but there wasn't anything special about this season as a whole. There were some fantastic players that helped lead this team to a ho-hum season just above .500 and nowhere close to post-season.

Some of the talent that would have returned would help for next year. But there was nothing to indicate that this program was ready to make a big step towards post-season next year.

As I've said before with basketball, you don't keep or hire coaches just to retain talent. That's very shortsighted and will more often than not lead to disaster, or at least prolonged mediocrity. It's better to lose everyone and bring in the right guy that can advance the program forward, even if that takes a couple of years of worse records than the previously ho-hum coach would have had.

Are there guarantees that Saal will make the right hire to propel the program forward? Of course not. I'm still not sold on the basketball hire but that doesn't change the fact that IB had to go. Not saying Hibbs was IB, but I don't see a lot of reason, outside of him being a Shocker, to keep him as the head of the program. I don't know what about this season inspired you and some others so much that you think Hibbs was going to make a huge jump next year and get this program into post-season play. More likely than not it would have been another year of barely above .500 ball and people being excited just because he is one of our own.

Sometimes the best way forward is blowing things up and reshaping what you're doing. That's what Saal is doing and we'll see how it takes shape in a few years. I'd rather he take that chance than accept mediocrity. He's talked about winning championships at all levels. That's what he's trying to do. I don't think Hibbs was taking us there. I don't think Wedge was taking us there.

Now, if he makes a bad hire, I fully support people bitching. And those who have their eyes on Hooper should probably look elsewhere. He's got a pretty sweet job and is making pretty damn good money and from what I gather, he's going to continue to rise through the ranks in the MLB world and it would take either an insane monetary offer or him having a deep desire to come back and coach Wichita State after all of these years. I know he was interested previously, but his situation is much different now than it was then.

I'd be shocked if there's any Wichita State connection to the next hire. And honestly, that's probably a good thing at this point.

[ShockerExpress]

Also I am right or wrong on this point:

If Wedge having a drinking problem has surfaced in June-August instead of whenever, what was it October? Wouldn’t we have had this whole process then - without ever even having Hibbs as interim?

Because when I’m thinking about blame or bad vibes, that’s where my head goes.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

This post makes it seem like Hibbs was hired to be the full time coach with a contract and then had the chair pulled out from under him.

That’s just not true.

I can’t agree that he was owed anything other than consideration, and I have no reason to believe he wasn’t given that.

I don’t ever agree with Bob Lutz on anything but he posted this on Twitter this morning and I agree with it wholeheartedly:

”As I said and wrote yesterday, not bringing back Hibbs was undoubtedly a difficult decision. Those who think this was a slam dunk either way just aren't living in the real world.”

Maybe it’s not the best decision for next year - but for 3-4 years from now? It very well could be. I certainly could be talked into it. Won’t really ever know for sure, but there’s evidence both directions.

The program doesn’t belong to anyone, imo. It exists with the purpose to win games and make Regionals. And that hasn’t happened in a very long time.

Tired of a lot of the pro-Hibbs people making this seem klike an obvious choice. I don’t see how it was obvious.

He wasn’t owed the HCing job and I’m not sure he earned it.

1. The program doesn’t belong to wins and regionals. There are lots of schools that have never been to a regional, or if they have it’s been decades.

2. A school with no fans and alumni support has never been to a regional.

3. Pro-Hibbs or against Hibbs, there is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. See an earlier post of mine if questions on that.

Other thoughts:

Hibbs statement makes it 100% that he was in to continue to run the program. Just because they didn’t hire him without a process doesn’t mean he wasn’t wanted. Hell, he could easily be the favorite. In my work world I have seen many put in interim roles. When the job posted, they still had to apply.

If ADKS told fiHCLH that he wasn’t being promoted and wouldn’t be selected if he applied, why did the conversation take an hour and a half?

I hope that fiHCLH throws his hat in the ring for the role. Just like in his statement, you have to earn it. Not just once, but everyday.

If he does, I believe the lessons he teaches these young men by doing so will be much more valuable than anything they learn by winning games and going to regionals.