American Athletic Conference

[1972Shocker]

How depressing is the last line of that article? It's true. No wonder Elgin is blue. Something is definitely happening.

If the loser of today's championship game is left out of the NCAA tournament then the Valley will be no longer teetering on the verge of Ugh! It will officially be there.

[DwShock]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

[Shocktoberfest]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

The same way he still has one today.

[SHOCKvalue]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

You know how no-accountability bureaucracies work, right?

[DwShock]

You know how no-accountability bureaucracies work, right?

Yes. It was kind of a retorical question.

[wusphlash]

I put more of the blame on the member institution. The schools are ultimately responsible for the product and maintaining intra-conference relationships. Elgin is just a figurehead and an easy target.

[SB Shock]

Wow. It sounds like WSU better close the deal quickly or Marshall will be leaving if they don't make a move.

[1972Shocker]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

I think you are being a bit harsh towards Elgin. He just happened to be in front of the steamroller of history marching on. The history of the Missouri Valley Conference is traditionally one of high turnover among its members. Every time some of its stronger members have elected to move on even the strongest remaining candidates to choose from as replacements were simply much weaker than those that left. Everytime this happened the pool of quality replacement options has dwindled and the quality has diminished. The phenomenon of P5 financial (TV) dominance and the conference realignment that it has triggered is probably something that the little ol' commissioner of the MVC, regardless of who that was, would not be able to do anything about especially with what the Valley has become.

If the Shocks can successfully navigate a move to the AAC (and please God make it happen) then the Valley will have to come to terms with what it has become and what it wants to be. Half the Valley teams have FCS football. Half do not. The Valley is probably the best FCS football conference in the country. If UNI, ILS, SIU, INS, and MSU are committed to FCS football then they should probably join the other 5 non-Valley MVFC members to form a new MVC and let DU, BU, EU and LOY move on to find a more appropriate niche for their situations. Most of the 5 FCS football playing schools probably have dreams of moving up to FBS football although all 5 have financial issues and huge hurdles in making that happen and the conferences they would be able to join would be FBS pretty much in name only and even that designation may be something on the way to the dust bin of history for those conferences. It is interesting to note that last year in the MVFC that none of the Valley schools finished above .500 in that league or overall. ILS had the best overall record at 6-6. ILS and UNI tied for 4th place in the MVFC and INS, SIU and MSU all tied for last place. They are not even keeping up in their FCS league. Maybe these team could eventually work there way into a lower tier FBS conference like the MAC, Conference USA or the Sunbelt but to what end?

My feeling is that most of the administrators at the remaining Valley schools would not be that bothered by dropping all pretense of wanting to run with the big dogs and to just be the best they can be within their structural limitations whatever that may be.

[ShockerDropOut]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

If we leave, who cares?

[LandStander]

I put more of the blame on the member institution. The schools are ultimately responsible for the product and maintaining intra-conference relationships. Elgin is just a figurehead and an easy target.

Sure but the writing has been writing on the wall for awhile now: The Valley sucks. Elgin should have been proactively motivating these lower institutions in scheduling tougher opponents, motivating them to find more money, helping them find and retain the better coaching staffs. This league is a giant anchor and I used to love this conference. I supported the few on here that wanted to stay in the Valley and strengthen it and were hope that other teams would bounce back. But I've seen the Valley trending down for years now and couldn't be more eager to leave.

You want to keep Creighton? Keep WSU? You have to make an effort just like the AAC is doing with UConn even in a down year because they are forward thinking. We've complained about the tournament for years, moving the location, add a school west of Illinois, etc. but Elgin time after time catered to the lowest common denominator. He's helped make this hole on this sinking ship and I will not feel bad when it goes down.

Rant over, I apologize, it's been building for awhile.

[DUShock]

Elgin is to blame for a lot of this. He sat around and didn't convince Creighton stay, he lost Tulsa and replaces them with Loyola, Missouri State, Evansville and Northern Iowa. If Wichita State leaves how in the world does Elgin keep his job?

I don't look at it this way, but I do not argue your point is irrational, I just don't agree with it. Like most every Shocker fan I am frustrated with the "I don't care" attitude of most Valley members and From time to time take cheap shots at the figure head of the Valley, warranted or not.

Elgin is the hired help, he has zero control over how Evansville, Drake, Indiana State, SIU, or even WSU spend their money. He has influence but if the President's and AD's don't listen or position their programs to be competitive in an ever changing environment, there isn't much he can do. Given that he works for 10 bosses, we will never know what he has said, recommended, and/or cautioned behind closed doors; nor should we. Elgin's situation reminds me of the poem that was popular during the Vietnam War:

It's not my place to run the train
The whistle I can't blow.

It's not my place to say how far
The train's allowed to go.

It's not my place to shoot off steam
Nor even clang the bell.

But let the damn thing jump the track
And see who catches hell.

[LandStander]

I don't look at it this way, but I do not argue your point is irrational, I just don't agree with it. Like most every Shocker fan I am frustrated with the "I don't care" attitude of most Valley members and From time to time take cheap shots at the figure head of the Valley, warranted or not.

Elgin is the hired help, he has zero control over how Evansville, Drake, Indiana State, SIU, or even WSU spend their money. He has influence but if the President's and AD's don't listen or position their programs to be competitive in an ever changing environment, there isn't much he can do. Given that he works for 10 bosses, we will never know what he has said, recommended, and/or cautioned behind closed doors; nor should we. Elgin's situation reminds me of the poem that was popular during the Vietnam War:

It's not my place to run the train
The whistle I can't blow.

It's not my place to say how far
The train's allowed to go.

It's not my place to shoot off steam
Nor even clang the bell.

But let the damn thing jump the track
And see who catches hell.

Great post. This is probably why I do direct my anger on to Elgin. He is that figure head. It's a lot easier to hate one man that 10 to 20 ADs and Presidents. It's tough enough keeping track of all their coaching changes and player transfers anyway. It's easy to put all my blame on Elgin, irrational or not ;)

[60Shock]

I don't look at it this way, but I do not argue your point is irrational, I just don't agree with it. Like most every Shocker fan I am frustrated with the "I don't care" attitude of most Valley members and From time to time take cheap shots at the figure head of the Valley, warranted or not.

Elgin is the hired help, he has zero control over how Evansville, Drake, Indiana State, SIU, or even WSU spend their money. He has influence but if the President's and AD's don't listen or position their programs to be competitive in an ever changing environment, there isn't much he can do. Given that he works for 10 bosses, we will never know what he has said, recommended, and/or cautioned behind closed doors; nor should we. Elgin's situation reminds me of the poem that was popular during the Vietnam War:

It's not my place to run the train
The whistle I can't blow.

It's not my place to say how far
The train's allowed to go.

It's not my place to shoot off steam
Nor even clang the bell.

But let the damn thing jump the track
And see who catches hell.

DUShock, thanks for especially listing the last line of the poem as it brings some laughable, some not, memories, which I have to confess I was quite familiar with during my military career.

[60Shock]

Hopefully, there is an excellent chance that we will get an invite even if we don't win today.

But winning would certainly help, and advancing in the NCAA tournament would likely nail it, if it hasn't already been nailed.

[WheatShock]

I put more of the blame on the member institution. The schools are ultimately responsible for the product and maintaining intra-conference relationships. Elgin is just a figurehead and an easy target.

Elgin is like congress under the articles of confederation.