Poll Watch (2013-14 Edition)

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Malcolm had some special moments last year absolutely taking over games by driving in against opponents. As good as Fred has been, he hasn't reached that level yet IMO. I think that is all Gottlieb was trying to say. Our run was special last year, and a big part was Malcolm's driving over and over and over again and just making defenses look silly. Having Fred as his backup was awesome. This year, Fred has to become Malcolm, and someone else has to become Fred. Baker is a great player, but he isn't a true backup PG.

Wichita doesn't have enough dribble-drive players to account for the new officiating guidelines and get them to the line.

Maybe Gottlieb is wrong and we do have enough dribble drive players. However, it is hard to say that we have as much ability in that area as we did last year, and I think that is Gottlieb's main point.

This is all about talent evaluation, a very subjective issue. I don't get why so many on here take offense to those who's opinions differ.

[GOSHOX1]

It is asinine to say that Fred can't get to the basket!!

In the words shockerref.... That is all

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

It is asinine to say that Fred can't get to the basket!!

Nobody said that he can't get to the basket. Who exactly are you arguing against?

[GOSHOX1]

Nobody said that he can't get to the basket. Who exactly are you arguing against?

umm Doug gottlieb? That is why I took offense to his article

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Try again. He didn't say that.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

He said Fred doesn't have the same gear that Malcolm had. Disagree if you want, but it is a fair opinion. Tell me the last time Fred took over a game the way Malcolm did during large spans of the NCAA Tourney last year.

"Fred can't get to the basket"
vs
"Fred doesn't have the same gear Malcolm had"

2 very different statements. Let's not criticize others for things they didn't say.

[GOSHOX1]

Sorry shockernet police I will go to time out now.

[GOSHOX1]

Oh and by the way he didn't say either of those things you posted. He said he didn't have the next gear to dribble drive, which is asinine, and the Tulsa game he took over the game at the end and put it away! Now I will go to time out sir

[Cdizzle]

Tell me the last time Fred took over a game the way Malcolm did during large spans of the NCAA Tourney last year.

5:38 53-57 Fred VanVleet made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Cleanthony Early.
4:52 55-59 Fred VanVleet made Layup.
3:38 57-62 Fred VanVleet made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Cleanthony Early.
2:09 61-66 Fred VanVleet made Jumper.

Welp. That didn't take very long. BYU. 7 days ago.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Cdizzle, I should have clarified as I meant through dribble drive penetration to the basket. The topic has been our ability to penetrate, not necessarily scoring in general.

Why is it that we can't debate Fred vs Malcolm? Someone comes out and says Malcolm > Fred and suddenly they are a fool, idiot, and should be stoned. My goodness.

[shoxtop]

nm

[WSUwatcher]

He said Fred doesn't have the same gear that Malcolm had. Disagree if you want, but it is a fair opinion. Tell me the last time Fred took over a game the way Malcolm did during large spans of the NCAA Tourney last year.

"Fred can't get to the basket"
vs
"Fred doesn't have the same gear Malcolm had"

2 very different statements. Let's not criticize others for things they didn't say.

Fair enough, Jamar. But personally, I'm not concerned with what gear Fred uses to get to the basket and score, just that he can do so, which he's shown that he can. Fred's gear, whatever it is, is fine with me as long as it works, and it has the advantage (although this may also be a personality thing) of not tempting Fred to try to do more than the game and opponeet will allow. There were times when Armstead certainly did take over games for stretches, and it was very helpful. But he also tried to take over at times against Louisville, and that didn't work nearly so well. (Cue Ricky and his box score data.) I think FVV is far less likely than Armstead was to get the Shocks in trouble by trying to do too much.

[Shoxfan11]

People (such as Gottlieb) are trying to compare Malcolm's best games as a Shocker to Fred's first few games as a starting PG at the college level. That's absolutely ridiculous.

[rrshock]

People (such as Gottlieb) are trying to compare Malcolm's best games as a Shocker to Fred's first few games as a starting PG at the college level. That's absolutely ridiculous.

This is the major issue with the argument. You hit the nail on the head.

[Cdizzle]

I think it's pretty clear that Gottlieb is just gonna hate on a PG shooting 48% from the field, 47% from 3 and 84% from the FT line.