Poll Watch (2013-14 Edition)

[shockmonster]

Malcolm had some special moments last year absolutely taking over games by driving in against opponents. As good as Fred has been, he hasn't reached that level yet IMO. I think that is all Gottlieb was trying to say. Our run was special last year, and a big part was Malcolm's driving over and over and over again and just making defenses look silly. Having Fred as his backup was awesome. This year, Fred has to become Malcolm, and someone else has to become Fred. Baker is a great player, but he isn't a true backup PG.

Two points:
1. Baker is as good as any backup point guard that other teams may have even if you don't consider him a true point guard.


2. You are correct that Malcolm had some special games where took over the game especially during the Final Four. Without him, we wouldn't have made the Final 4. However, if he had one of those games against Louisville, we would have played for the National Championship (he was not consistently great )and we didn't have anyone else who could attack like he could.

[TheYeti]

Geez Saturday night can't get here fast enough!

[im4wsu]

Back to Poll Watch rather than DG bashing

Colley Matrix as of 12/2/13 has the following:

	team	record	rating		SOS:rank	wins vs. top			best game
25	50	100
1.	UConn	8-0	1.009120		0.636403: 22		2	4	W: #29 Indiana
2.	UMass	6-0	1.004760		0.673017: 12		2	3	W: #37 New Mexico
3.	Wisconsin	8-0	0.993381		0.616727: 34		1	4	W: #41 Florida
4.	Villanova	7-0	0.968489		0.602342: 47	1	2	3	W: #7 Kansas
5.	Syracuse	7-0	0.963939		0.596494: 54	1	1	3	W: #9 Baylor
6.	Mich St	7-0	0.942344		0.568728: 74	1	2	3	W: #22 Oklahoma
7.	Kansas	6-1	0.923138		0.686891: 8			3	W: #64 Duke
8.	Wichita St	7-0	0.921465		0.541883: 125	1	1	3	W: #23 BYU
9.	Baylor	5-1	0.913003		0.717338: 3	2	2	2	W: #15 Dayton
10.	Arizona	7-0	0.905392		0.521218: 151		1	3	W: #38 San Diego St
11.	Ohio St	6-0	0.897366		0.529821: 138		1	3	W: #35 Ohio
12.	Oregon	7-0	0.884922		0.494900: 201		1	2	W: #36 Pacific
13.	Iowa St	6-0	0.884103		0.512138: 167	1	1	2	W: #23 BYU
14.	Illinois	7-0	0.883058		0.492504: 208			1	W: #82 Bradley
15.	Dayton	6-1	0.882672		0.634863: 25	1	1	2	W: #19 Gonzaga
16.	St Mary's	6-0	0.876705		0.502274: 187		2	2	W: #40 Drake
17.	Texas	7-1	0.843625		0.554531: 98			1	W: #88 Depaul
18.	UCLA	7-0	0.842211		0.439986: 288			1	W: #67 Drexel
19.	Gonzaga	6-1	0.841773		0.582280: 61			3	W: #57 Arkansas
20.	Pitt	7-0	0.836580		0.432746: 295			3	W: #60 Stanford

http://www.colleyrankings.com/hcurrank.html

[The Cat]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...on/2014/week/5 Here are this weeks power rankings. Time for us Shocker fans to get even more insecure with the small write up. They got it right that we won the CBE and then the writer goes on to write about beating Indiana State. As usual the national media spends no time on the Shockers and can't even get a one or two sentence write up correct.

[RoyalShock]

ESPN Power Rankings

The Shockers won the CBE Hall of Fame Classic and outlasted Indiana State, thanks in large part to the play of point guard Fred VanVleet.

Indiana State? I guess they are blue and white just like SLU.

:shrug:

[RoyalShock]

Just beat by @The Cat:.

[im4wsu]

Composite ofranking systems 12/1/13

MAS	SAG	CJB	POM	TRP	SE	PGH	WLK	PIG	DOK		Rank, Team,	Conf, Record		TMR	BUR	DOL	DII	BBT	KPK	BIH	RT	WIL	DUN	RTP	PTS	MOR	NOL	LOG	R	ank, Team	RTB	D1A	USA	AP	Mean	Median	St.Dev
1	1	1	2	5	1	5	6	6	2	1	Ohio St	B10	Jun-00	6	8	9	1	4	1	10	6	2	2	3	9	2	6	7	1	Ohio St	16	5	3	5	4.66	5	3.5
5	3	9	4	7	5	8	4	2	8	2	Michigan St	B10	Jul-00	8	3	4	2	3	3	7	7	3	8	5	3	3	7	13	2	Mich St	7	1	1	1	4.97	4	2.88
3	2	6	7	8	4	7	9	3	5	3	Arizona	P12	Jul-00	4	12	3	8	6	11	2	12	9	18	9	12	29	11	5	3	Ariz	12	2	2	2	7.71	7	5.79
10	9	2	8	6	11	11	2	10	9	4	Kansas	B12	1-Jun	16	10	10	5	11	6	11	4	4	5	1	15	33	8	8	4	Kan	3	6	7	6	8.52	8	5.97
2	6	5	9	22	3	10	13	8	13	5	Wichita St	MVC	Aug-00	2	5	5	14	1	23	4	22	23	10	12	2	6	1	18	5	Wich St	13	11	10	11	9.79	10	6.78
16	8	19	5	1	15	23	8	4	3	6	Oklahoma St	B12	1-Jul	14	11	12	10	14	7	19	1	14	9	16	4	7	15	2	6	OkSt	33	10	11	9	11.05	10	7.08
9	10	3	15	14	9	6	3	17	21	7	Villanova	BE	Jul-00	5	1	2	23	5	15	1	5	16	17	39	8	10	13	6	7	V'nova	6	16	19	14	11.31	10	8.19
6	13	14	13	28	7	1	23	14	18	8	Syracuse	ACC	Jul-00	3	9	6	3	9	9	6	21	8	12	7	14	8	3	56	8	Syr	10	4	5	4	11.52	9	10.69
7	15	8	17	16	14	3	16	21	16	9	Wisconsin	B10	Aug-00	19	14	1	6	7	4	5	20	5	16	13	25	13	5	28	9	Wisc	2	8	9	8	11.76	13	7.02
8	5	17	21	18	6	13	5	19	7	10	Iowa St	B12	May-00	1	6	14	18	22	13	9	3	14	7	27	6	21	9	3	10	Iowa St	14	17	18	17	12.36	13	6.82

5	Wichita St
59	Drake
96	Indiana St
107	Missouri St
114	Northern Iowa
122	Evansville
136	Bradley
177	Illinois St
226	S Illinois
261	Loyola-Chicago

http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

[Cdizzle]

ESPN Power Rankings



Indiana State? I guess they are blue and white just like SLU.

:shrug:

Clearly the play of point guard Fred VanVleet didn't play that large a part in the win---everyone knows he doesn't have that kind of gear. :)

Also, if we already have a win away from home against Indiana State, the Valley probably should just mail the trophy.

[MadaboutWu]

Malcolm 12-13: 28.6 min; 10.7 ppg; 3.8 rpg; 4.0 apg; 2.3 TOs; 1.74 a/to; 1.9 spg; .394 FG; .345 3pt FG; .803 FT; 1.95 FT pg

FVV 13-14 (to date): 31.4 min; 12.6 ppg; 3.1 rpg; 5.5 apg; 1.8 TOs; 3.06 a/to; 2.1 spg; .484 Fg; .471 3pt FG; .838 FT; 4.63 FT pg

The new rules are likely helping FVV get to the line more, but so is the fact that he takes less than half the number of 3 point attempts than MA. A more serious factor is the very small sample size (especially on stats like 3 pointers). However, it is all the sample size Doug Gottlieb had at his disposal and much larger than the sample he chose to use.

[pie n eye]

Malcolm had some special moments last year absolutely taking over games by driving in against opponents. As good as Fred has been, he hasn't reached that level yet IMO. I think that is all Gottlieb was trying to say. Our run was special last year, and a big part was Malcolm's driving over and over and over again and just making defenses look silly. Having Fred as his backup was awesome. This year, Fred has to become Malcolm, and someone else has to become Fred. Baker is a great player, but he isn't a true backup PG.




Maybe Gottlieb is wrong and we do have enough dribble drive players. However, it is hard to say that we have as much ability in that area as we did last year, and I think that is Gottlieb's main point.

This is all about talent evaluation, a very subjective issue. I don't get why so many on here take offense to those who's opinions differ.

I actually think we've got better dribble drive personnel this year. Fred, Ron, Tekele, Cle, and Nick can all get to the hole. St. Louis was just great at guarding ball screens. Plus I don't think coach likes to run a dribble drive offense.

[shox1989]

The video next to the article also talks about Wichita State. It is called separating contenders, pretenders. About a 1/4 of the way in they talk about the Shockers. They say nothing but good things. On the other hand they do say bad things about Duke and Louisville.

[Cdizzle]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...on/2014/week/5 Here are this weeks power rankings. Time for us Shocker fans to get even more insecure with the small write up. They got it right that we won the CBE and then the writer goes on to write about beating Indiana State. As usual the national media spends no time on the Shockers and can't even get a one or two sentence write up correct.

Soooooo, does the industry not like Gregg Marshall, or is it really more like Jeff ******* doesn't like Gregg Marshall?

[pie n eye]

Another thing I'll say on Fred vs Malcolm (btw, I love(d) both of these guys) is that Fred doesn't take over the offense because he doesn't need to. Offensively, this team is way ahead of last years at this point.

Fred passed up a few open looks from 3 last game. Nothing opens up your driving lanes like knocking down a couple of threes. But again, we have so many weapons offensively that Fred doesn't have to take those threes early in the shot clock. If he doesn't want to.

To me Fred is a better PG than Mal. Better shooter, passer, about as crafty around the bucket. The thing I was worried about was who is going to back up FVV at point. Earlier I said I thought Ri'ann looked better at point than baker. Well baker has changed my mind since.

My biggest question marks right now are Coleby, Carter, and Wiggins. In that order. If those three guys can find some sort of consistency then the sky is the limit. If not, WSU is still a very good team but with less margin of error as far as foul trouble, injuries, etc.

[ABC]

Another thing I'll say on Fred vs Malcolm (btw, I love(d) both of these guys) is that Fred doesn't take over the offense because he doesn't need to. Offensively, this team is way ahead of last years at this point.

Fred passed up a few open looks from 3 last game. Nothing opens up your driving lanes like knocking down a couple of threes. But again, we have so many weapons offensively that Fred doesn't have to take those threes early in the shot clock. If he doesn't want to.

To me Fred is a better PG than Mal. Better shooter, passer, about as crafty around the bucket. The thing I was worried about was who is going to back up FVV at point. Earlier I said I thought Ri'ann looked better at point than baker. Well baker has changed my mind since.

My biggest question marks right now are Coleby, Carter, and Wiggins. In that order. If those three guys can find some sort of consistency then the sky is the limit. If not, WSU is still a very good team but with less margin of error as far as foul trouble, injuries, etc.

I agree re FVV and MA, but I understand why someone might reverse that. They are different types of point guards with different strengths so I am not exactly sure where Gottlieb is coming from. FVV is a better passer and just seems to me to control the ball just a wee bit better. Anyway, it is only eight games into his sophomore year.

[wsushox1]

Jeff ******* is the biggest asswipe when it comes to CBB.

Total tool.

He basically blew all of Creighton this past weekend in Anaheim.