American Athletic Conference

[60Shock]

Agree. Perhaps when it's all said and done, Memphis will have to rejoin the MVC. :highly_amused:

At the present time, I can not think of anything more humiliating in college sports, than having departed the Valley in years past to later having to admit defeat and re-join it.

Hara-Kari would at least be the honorable way out.

[WSUwatcher]

I hesitate to drag this "basketball" topic even further off track, but in case no one has pointed it out yet, WSU played in a bowl game that still exists, the Sun Bowl. That was following the 1961 season, at a point when you actually had to accomplish something to get into a bowl game rather than just surviving at .500 or above.

The MVC champion Shocks lost to Villanova 17-9 and obviously never recovered from the shock, so to speak -- that day they were the Shockees rather than the Shockers -- of losing to a basketball school, because that was the end of the bowl line for WSU.

[ripemupshocks]

I don't see how you can say the MVC is better than the WCC...having Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, and Pacific gives them a better top half of the conference...and saying "our bottom teams are better than yours" isn't saying much.

Going up against ACC, B1G, AAC, Big East, Big 12, Pac 12, MWC, SEC, A-10, WCC, CUSA...I don't see how the MVC could hope to crack the top 10 without Creighton.

I would give CUSA the edge, yes...after WSU the valley looks like hot garbage IMHO.

I actually think not having Memphis there to beat up everyone and take the NCAA auto bid every year will be a good think for CUSA...UTEP, UAB, Southern Miss, ODU, Charlotte, MTSU...good parity there.

WSU can do better than the Valley.

I know I should leave this alone, but just for the record, here are the last ten seasons RPI's (according to www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/overall-power-ranking-by-team).

SEASON	MVC RPI	CUSA RPI	WCC RPI	TOP MVC RPI TEAM	TOP CUSA RPI TEAM	TOP WCC RPI TEAM
2012-13	8	11	10	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2011-12	9	10	11	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2010-11	11	8	14	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2009-10	7	11	14	UNI	UTEP	ST. MARYS
2008-09	9	10	15	CRETIN	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2007-08	8	10	15	DRAKE	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2006-07	6	11	15	SIU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2005-06	6	14	12	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2004-05	8	9	7	SIU	LOUISVILLE	GONZAGA
2003-04	7	2	31	SIU	CINCINNATI	GONZAGA

Thanks for saying "WSU can do better than the Valley", but obviously there is much more parity in the MVC than in CUSA or the WCC. Memphis and Gonzaga are the cocks of the walk in their respective conferences. But in the MVC, neither Cretin or even WSU have ruled the roost. In spite of that fact, eight out of the last ten seasons the MVC had a better RPI than CUSA, and nine out of ten seasons a better RPI than the WCC. By the way, there was no particular reason for looking at just the last ten seasons other than I just didn't feel like going back any further.

Regarding wins and losses, I only looked at the last two seasons (2011-12 and 2012-13), and only between the MVC and CUSA. The MVC went 12 and 3 against CUSA. Again, no reason for only looking at the last two seasons other than I was tired of looking.

I don't think the MVC has to worry about staying in the top ten or remaining better than CUSA or the WCC. And even without the Cretins, the MVC may end-up out pacing the A-10 after the teams they've lost. But I guess only time will tell.

Good luck in the AAC. It looks like a good basketball conference at the top. If you can keep it together.

[im4wsu]

I know I should leave this alone, but just for the record, here are the last ten seasons RPI's (according to www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/overall-power-ranking-by-team).

SEASON	MVC RPI	CUSA RPI	WCC RPI	TOP MVC RPI TEAM	TOP CUSA RPI TEAM	TOP WCC RPI TEAM
2012-13	8	11	10	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2011-12	9	10	11	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2010-11	11	8	14	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2009-10	7	11	14	UNI	UTEP	ST. MARYS
2008-09	9	10	15	CRETIN	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2007-08	8	10	15	DRAKE	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2006-07	6	11	15	SIU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2005-06	6	14	12	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2004-05	8	9	7	SIU	LOUISVILLE	GONZAGA
2003-04	7	2	31	SIU	CINCINNATI	GONZAGA

Thanks for saying "WSU can do better than the Valley", but obviously there is much more parity in the MVC than in CUSA or the WCC. Memphis and Gonzaga are the cocks of the walk in their respective conferences. But in the MVC, neither Cretin or even WSU have ruled the roost. In spite of that fact, eight out of the last ten seasons the MVC had a better RPI than CUSA, and nine out of ten seasons a better RPI than the WCC. By the way, there was no particular reason for looking at just the last ten seasons other than I just didn't feel like going back any further.

Regarding wins and losses, I only looked at the last two seasons (2011-12 and 2012-13), and only between the MVC and CUSA. The MVC went 12 and 3 against CUSA. Again, no reason for only looking at the last two seasons other than I was tired of looking.

I don't think the MVC has to worry about staying in the top ten or remaining better than CUSA or the WCC. And even without the Cretins, the MVC may end-up out pacing the A-10 after the teams they've lost. But I guess only time will tell.

Good luck in the AAC. It looks like a good basketball conference at the top. If you can keep it together.

What effect would removing Cretin have on this 12-3 record?

[ShockerFever]

I know I should leave this alone, but just for the record, here are the last ten seasons RPI's (according to www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/overall-power-ranking-by-team).

SEASON	MVC RPI	CUSA RPI	WCC RPI	TOP MVC RPI TEAM	TOP CUSA RPI TEAM	TOP WCC RPI TEAM
2012-13	8	11	10	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2011-12	9	10	11	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2010-11	11	8	14	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2009-10	7	11	14	UNI	UTEP	ST. MARYS
2008-09	9	10	15	CRETIN	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2007-08	8	10	15	DRAKE	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2006-07	6	11	15	SIU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2005-06	6	14	12	WSU	MEMPHIS	GONZAGA
2004-05	8	9	7	SIU	LOUISVILLE	GONZAGA
2003-04	7	2	31	SIU	CINCINNATI	GONZAGA

Thanks for saying "WSU can do better than the Valley", but obviously there is much more parity in the MVC than in CUSA or the WCC. Memphis and Gonzaga are the cocks of the walk in their respective conferences. But in the MVC, neither Cretin or even WSU have ruled the roost. In spite of that fact, eight out of the last ten seasons the MVC had a better RPI than CUSA, and nine out of ten seasons a better RPI than the WCC. By the way, there was no particular reason for looking at just the last ten seasons other than I just didn't feel like going back any further.

Regarding wins and losses, I only looked at the last two seasons (2011-12 and 2012-13), and only between the MVC and CUSA. The MVC went 12 and 3 against CUSA. Again, no reason for only looking at the last two seasons other than I was tired of looking.

I don't think the MVC has to worry about staying in the top ten or remaining better than CUSA or the WCC. And even without the Cretins, the MVC may end-up out pacing the A-10 after the teams they've lost. But I guess only time will tell.

Good luck in the AAC. It looks like a good basketball conference at the top. If you can keep it together.

Man, Creighton has been dominating the Valley by the looks of this chart.

[ripemupshocks]

What effect would removing Cretin have on this 12-3 record?

Cretin went 4-0.

2011-12
Cretin 70-60 UAB
Cretin 83-64 Tulsa

2012-13
Cretin 77-60 UAB
Cretin 71-54 Tulsa

[The Mad Hatter]

I decided to take it a step further:

1. I took all of the teams that will be in the MVC, CUSA, and WCC once planned realignment is done (starting in 2014 with the move of final CUSA teams to the AAC).
2. I looked up the final RPIs for each of these teams for each of the last 5 years.
3. I averaged the RPIs of each conference for each year and on a rolling basis.

Here are the results for each year (Best in Blue; Worst in Red):

	2012-13	2011-12	2010-11	2009-10	2008-09
MVC	129.4	157.3	149.1	121.1	140.7
CUSA	163.5	144.1	146.4	137.9	158.1
WCC	123.8	165.1	144.4	144.3	147.4

Here are the rolling averages (Best in Blue; Worst in Red):

	Last Year	Last 2 Years	Last 3 Years	Last 4 Years	Last 5 Years
MVC	129.4	143.4	145.3	139.2	139.5
CUSA	163.5	153.8	151.3	148.0	150.0
WCC	123.8	144.5	144.4	144.4	145.0

[SubGod22]

And that's even with the addition of Loyola who only recently decided athletics is important? Their RPI is definitely going to improve in the near future.

[The Mad Hatter]

And that's even with the addition of Loyola who only recently decided athletics is important? Their RPI is definitely going to improve in the near future.

Yes. That's with Loyola and without Creighton.

In addition, for the WCC, that includes the final 3 Jimmer Fredette years of BYU, which are not necessarily likely to be representative of BYU's usual strength moving to the WCC (not that they won't be good, just that they may not average having 1 top 10 RPI year every 5 years as the last 5 years would suggest, or 1 every 3 years as the last 3 would suggest).

[im4wsu]

Borrowing Hatter's data (thanks, Hatter) and concept, I wanted to look at the three conferences comparing the top-3 teams, bottom-3 teams and middle group of teams (remaining 3 or 8). I only did the year-by-year average.

[wufan]

Borrowing Hatter's data (thanks, Hatter) and concept, I wanted to look at the three conferences comparing the top-3 teams, bottom-3 teams and middle group of teams (remaining 3 or 8). I only did the year-by-year average.

I think the data from the bottom three teams demonstrates why the MVC has been looked over in recent years. The bottom of the Valley has been so strong that it is detrimental to the success of the top teams in way of NCAA bids and seeding.

[im4wsu]

I think the data from the bottom three teams demonstrates why the MVC has been looked over in recent years. The bottom of the Valley has been so strong that it is detrimental to the success of the top teams in way of NCAA bids and seeding.

Clearly the fact that MVC teams beat up on each other is a detriment to the top teams being recognized, in my opinion, properly. The bottom teams maybe receive "improved" ranking because of the top teams, but the top teams get "supressed" rankings because of the bottom teams being ranked higher.

[Shockeriffic]

I disagree with you guys here. The top three teams aren't losing to the bottom three enough to make up for 10 to 20 spots. The problem is that the number 3 team in the Valley has been pretty average the last few years.

[CBB_Fan]

Here is an actual realignment article. Not breaking news, just opinion, but still interesting.

In summary, the hypothesis is that a major conference break-off at the FBS football level would probably be better for pure basketball conferences than the Group of Five conferences with low-level FBS football. The key is the idea that the larger schools would make paying players a key point (for legal reasons, it would actually create money by selling player likenesses for merchandising and video games), and that the Group of Five conferences wouldn't be able to afford paying 85 football players, 15 basketball players, and the matching payments for women.

Meanwhile, the lower level basketball conferences would only need to match the payments for basketball. Without additional schools, it would be impossible to create a good college basketball tournaments, a huge loss in revenue. Also, consider that each FBS school added would divide the pot and reduce the payout for the Power 5.

Therefore, the article suggests that conferences like the new Big East and MVC would be more likely additions than the MWC or AAC. He also goes on to mention that a ten conference break away could create a clean regional match for each Power 5 conference:

B1G / Big East
ACC / A-10
Big 12 / MVC
Pac 12 / WCC
SEC / CAA (or something else)

The one that doesn't work is the CAA. I think the better addition would be a new conference with teams from a variety of conferences (Memphis, Davidson, Belmont, CofCharleston, and other more basketball centered schools throughout the SE).

Anyway, wanted to bring it to the discussion table. I think the author makes rational points, but I still think that it is more likely that the G5 conferences will tag along than basketball conferences like the MVC.

[Rlh04d]

Additionally, I think from a basketball standpoint this would probably help the MVC. We're a lot less likely to get squeezed out in basketball than the auto-bid bottom leagues. If they could find a way to squeeze out the teams currently sitting in the 13-16 seed range, that would be up to an additional 16 tournament spots MVC teams would be up for.