American Athletic Conference

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Elgin even said on the radio it is not good for the league for WSU to be this good for the league.

Can you clarify and explain this?

[Slalomshocker]

I did not listen to the Elgin interview. I am merely going off of my own thought process on this one.

What would happen to the WCC if Gonzaga left? It falls apart right? I mean you have SMC and now BYU, but they aren't going to carry the conference on their shoulders (mainly because the drop off after Gonzaga, SMC and BYU is about like jumping off the Empire State Building). Same thing happened in the MVC with the loss of Creighton. You used to be able to count on CU being good to very good 8/10 years. Then you would have a WSU or UNI or SIU get a good run of recruiting classes and put together a couple good years. Well, look at the MVC now....what happens to the conference if WSU leaves. You are left with Indiana St. as your premier team. Yes, MSU looks to be on the up swing, and UNI is decent year to year, but you have pretty much no chance for an at-large team out of the conference. No at-large, no $$. WSU can carry the conference right now with the tournament money, but should you lose your 2nd and only other NCAA tournament caliber team in 2 years....thats a big dent in the money. WSU is vital to the MVC right now. TV wise, tournament money wise, and exposure wise. Lose WSU and the MVC suddenly becomse less attractive for TV....meaning an even weaker contract.

There is hope for the MVC in the near future. I like what MSU is building, Illinois St actually might be able to build something, I have to believe Hinson pulls SIU out of the depths to at least a top-150 rpi, and if Indiana St can not fall completely off the map with Odum finally graduating....they have a chance under Lansing. It will be a long time before the MVC gets back to 2006 form, if it ever happens. But as long as WSU is in the conference the MVC is relevant.

[MoValley John]

I did not listen to the Elgin interview. I am merely going off of my own thought process on this one.

What would happen to the WCC if Gonzaga left? It falls apart right? I mean you have SMC and now BYU, but they aren't going to carry the conference on their shoulders (mainly because the drop off after Gonzaga, SMC and BYU is about like jumping off the Empire State Building). Same thing happened in the MVC with the loss of Creighton. You used to be able to count on CU being good to very good 8/10 years. Then you would have a WSU or UNI or SIU get a good run of recruiting classes and put together a couple good years. Well, look at the MVC now....what happens to the conference if WSU leaves. You are left with Indiana St. as your premier team. Yes, MSU looks to be on the up swing, and UNI is decent year to year, but you have pretty much no chance for an at-large team out of the conference. No at-large, no $$. WSU can carry the conference right now with the tournament money, but should you lose your 2nd and only other NCAA tournament caliber team in 2 years....thats a big dent in the money. WSU is vital to the MVC right now. TV wise, tournament money wise, and exposure wise. Lose WSU and the MVC suddenly becomse less attractive for TV....meaning an even weaker contract.

There is hope for the MVC in the near future. I like what MSU is building, Illinois St actually might be able to build something, I have to believe Hinson pulls SIU out of the depths to at least a top-150 rpi, and if Indiana St can not fall completely off the map with Odum finally graduating....they have a chance under Lansing. It will be a long time before the MVC gets back to 2006 form, if it ever happens. But as long as WSU is in the conference the MVC is relevant.

If the Valley loses Wichita State, the Valley is about as relevant as the Summit League.

[SB Shock]

Can you clarify and explain this?

what I recall Lutz ask elgin it is good to have a team (like WSU) dominating the league and he said no. Elgin indicated they want a competive league and the present situation actually make the league look worse than it might be with the WSU team being so good. I don't believe Elgin expects the league to elevate itself to a higher level, but expect WSU to drop back to the pack and the league to go through a cycle where other teams get slightly better and so there will be a more "even" level of play with the hopes of having 2 maybe 3 teams in the talk for at-large with high seeds.

But you can listen to the sport daily podcast from this week - I could be a bit jaded due to the baseball experience where the MVC would do everything they could to try take make things "fairer" for those other teams to compete against WSU. That included such things as:

1. dumbing down the tournament (recall the pod play format fiasco) so they can try and elminate the advantage of WSU pitching depth
2. elminmation of only taking the top 6 teams because when you do that it means that some team wouldn't have any chance to go to the NCAA tournament
3. The illinois/iowa school voting against DBU inclusion for baseball because it might make the league tougher and give it more travel expense
4. The reduction of post-season awards to WSU players (even though some were getting national recognition) so they could spread the "wealth" to all members - just wait, I won't be suprised if WSU gets screwed on post-season awards this year.

[Anthroshock]

They will move it, just not to KC.

It will probably move back to campus sites or a "neutral" location that is convenient for the Illinois contingent, i.e. renting out some small, non-Loyola school's crummy gym in Chicago.

Arch Madness averaged 14k per game last year and a total of 71k for the weekend. It's not ending up in a "gym". I could see a move to Chicago being a strategy, though.

[AndShock]

I'd put the odds at 75% St. Louis. 25% Chicago. 0% KC.

Elgin wants convenience first, fairness second, and he has no interest in doing what makes the most sense.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Arch Madness averaged 14k per game last year and a total of 71k for the weekend. It's not ending up in a "gym". I could see a move to Chicago being a strategy, though.

And how many were CU and WSU?

[shocktheheart]

And how many were CU and WSU?

Over half

[Play Angry]

Over half

I'd put it at more like 80%+. The size of the ticket blocks is not reflective of the total attendees for a school- so many folks buy at the window or from scalpers that there's no way to gauge it based on pre-sales for schools like WSU and Creighton. For the Sunday game alone, I would say at least an extra 1,500+ fans came down from Omaha and about 1,000 from Wichita. Almost none of those folks had seats in the team blocks.

On the other end of the spectrum, there is zero chance Evansville brought even a hundred fans. I bet we can count the number of non-player relatives in attendance for Loyola at St. Louis on one hand.


Using last year's attendance figures is disingenuous at best for what the event will draw going forward. If the MVC loses WSU, Arch Madness would be lucky to break 3,000/game.

[1972Shocker]

How is the A10 in baseball and volleyball??

For that matter, how are these sports in the MWC and AAC as well?

These programs are very important to the athletic department as well as members of Shocker Nation. They should be taken into consideration for the overall success of WSU athletics.

They should be considered but Men's basketball pays the freight and Men's basketball will drive the decision IMHO. I think the Valley could eventually be a decent conference but only if they truly become a basketball-centric league. UNI, MSU, INS, ILS, and SIU need to dump their FCS football programs and put those resources to work in building their Men's Basketball programs and other sports. Obviously, that's not going to happen anytime soon so Wichita State has to have their antenna searching for a better conference affiliation.

[ShockerMas]

How is the A10 in baseball and volleyball??

For that matter, how are these sports in the MWC and AAC as well?

These programs are very important to the athletic department as well as members of Shocker Nation. They should be taken into consideration for the overall success of WSU athletics.

Looks like SLU won the A10 Tourney in baseball (also the host) last year and lost to Clemson in the Regionals, couldn't find any other A10 teams in the NCAAs for that year.
SDSU won the MWC Tourney, which only has 6 baseball programs in the conference so they all make the Tournament. Hosting rotates through all of the schools (including Vegas this year!). Historically TCU had won the most titles until they left for the Big 12. UNLV and UNM had 37 wins apiece last season overall to lead the conference. They play a 30 game conference schedule (home and home 3 game series, round robin)

[pogo]

The football schools aren't going to drop football due to perception and local economics. They will be perceived by their alumni and supporters as just another step in the progression towards mediocrity. I really believe WSU would not have made the move to eliminate football if WSU was in a small college town. The financial impact of NOT having an additonal several thousand people in town and on campus during a football game would have a pretty large effect on the local business. Wichita on the other hand did not have that economic impact one way or the other except for maybe homecoming when alumni would try to come back.

[shocker3]

How do our ESPN2 viewership compare to the A-10 viewership? If we don't know, VCU v. LaSalle is on this week. We can compare apples to apples.

Also, I wonder what the viewership is for our Cox 22 games? Think it is more than 50,000?

We shouldn't throw stones at teams getting paid twice as much as we are for games on channels that EVERYONE across the COULD watch, and as we continue to build our brand, the viewers will come... if they can see us.

My concern is that the added travel costs for our sports would far exceed the additional $350,000 in TV revenue. Being a baseball fan, I also have a lot of concerns about what a move to the A-10 would do for baseball.

As long as we continue to get 13 to 14 games a year on espn2, espnU, Valley TV and CBS (Valley championship game), I think from a TV exposure stand point we are probably better of in the Valley than the A-10. My guess is that our games on Valley TV (FSNKC,FSNMW,FSNI,FCS, ChiComCast) do about as well as the A-10 games on NBCSN and our games on COX22 probably do about as well as the A-10 games on CBSSN. The Valley TV games and COX22 games are also offered on espn3 and as that platform continues to grow so will our exposure (A-10 NBCSN and CBSSN games are not on espn3).

Each additional game on espn2 has the same TV audience as about 10 games on NBCSN. I think Elgin was right to stick with espn. I just hope he (and Sexton) can continue to grow the number of games we get on the espn family. Because of their contract with NBCSN, I think we have a better chance of getting more games on the espn family in the Valley than we would in the A-10.

The other concern I have with the A-10 is stability. If SLU, Dayton and VCU leave we would be stuck in a far eastern conference that wouldn't be any better than the Valley. I would hate travelling to places like Fordham and St. Bonnaventure, they are like Evansville only much further away.

The best reason (and it may trump all of my concerns) for jumping to the A-10 would be the possible split in the ncaa. If the split happens, the A-10 at least right now has a far better chance of being on the right side of the split than the Valley.

[ShockerMas]

NBC also has an online platform (NBC Sports Live Extra) which streams all of their NBC Sports programming along with Golf Channel, NBCSN, Olympic Coverage, etc. So for those trying to make the comparison, the loss of ESPN3 games would not be a loss at all. In my opinion the NBC Sports Live Extra feeds are quite a bit more reliable than ESPN3, but that might just be an internet connection issue or personal preference.

But yeah, ESPN has a wider viewership than NBCSN in general.

[shocker3]

NBC also has an online platform (NBC Sports Live Extra) which streams all of their NBC Sports programming along with Golf Channel, NBCSN, Olympic Coverage, etc. So for those trying to make the comparison, the loss of ESPN3 games would not be a loss at all. In my opinion the NBC Sports Live Extra feeds are quite a bit more reliable than ESPN3, but that might just be an internet connection issue or personal preference.

But yeah, ESPN has a wider viewership than NBCSN in general.

The gulf in viewership between espn and NBCSN is huge, like grand canyon huge. Espn3 has an advantage over the NBC thing too (I never even heard of the NBC online platform until just now) because WATCH ESPN and espn3 are just much better known as well.

NBCSN could grow, but CBSSN has been around a long time now and shows no signs of denting espn one bit. While espn's college basketball ratings actually continue to grow each year the other sports networks just seem to be cutting into each other rather then hurting espn.