American Athletic Conference

[Dave Stalwart]

Screw it, let's blow it all up! Create a true Mid-West(ish) basketball ONLY conference.

We start with the flagship, of course:
- WSU

The five close Big East Schools:
- Creighton (welcome back)
- Butler
- Depaul
- Xavier
- Marquette

The close A10 school:
- SLU

Now, we add the outsiders:
- UAB
- Belmount
- ORU (wost basketball school, but helps even out the map some)

If you go to 12 schools:
- Detroit
- Cleveland State

(Schools like Murry State, Dayton, Valpo, etc. were not considered due to having football programs)

Gives a good mix of "media markets" and successful basketball programs.

What would this look like mapped up @DJ06Shocker? ;)

Not bad...

[SHOCKvalue]

Butler has a football team in the same conference as Valpo and Dayton, so that seems like an odd criteria to use to eliminate those schools

Interesting. I thought the Big East excluded all football schools. (Then again, Butler is also they only non-catholic too; unlike all the other BE schools.)

I guess I didn't realized Nova and Georgetown also have football.

Funny how they leave to "get away from football" and wanted all Catholic schools, yet one of their new additions has football and is not Catholic.

They're in an FCS level football league called the Pioneer League. Drake is in there also. It is a non-scholly college football league, and is essentially a glorified club sport. It is not relevant under what most people would consider the umbrella of D1 college football. 'Participation ribbon' football, if you will. Not a consideration in conference realignment in the slightest.

[_kai_]

From that holyland sit

Let's compare Wichita and VCU on TV for conference games
Wichita
1 ESPN
3 ESPN2
3 ESPNU
9 Cox Kansas
1 FSKC
1 ESPN 3

VCU
6 ESPN2
1 ESPNU
8 CBSSN
2 NBCSN
1 MASN

So same number of ESPN games- but then instead of 10 games on Cox local or FSKC, they get 10 games on CBSSN/NBCSN.

Sign me up.

[1972Shocker]

I don't understand the increased travel argument. The five home and home teams in the western division would be very little farther that Valley schools. We would only play 3 of the 6 Eastern schools on the road every year. That could be done easily with two road trips.

The travel issue is not limited to the men's basketball team. It also has a big affect on volleyball, women's basketball, men's & women's tennis, baseball and softball. It would not have great impact on golf and the track & field teams depending on where the championships are held. These are teams that generally bus to their events. This is issue is not limited to only cost but also to time spent traveling. The travel issue has very little to do with men's basketball since they fly pretty much everywhere as it is. The travel issue has to do with all your other sports.

[tgcshock]

The travel issue is not limited to the men's basketball team. It also has a big affect on volleyball, women's basketball, men's & women's tennis, baseball and softball. It would not have great impact on golf and the track & field teams depending on where the championships are held. These are teams that generally bus to their events. This is issue is not limited to only cost but also to time spent traveling. The travel issue has very little to do with men's basketball since they fly pretty much everywhere as it is. The travel issue has to do with all your other sports.

I agree with your overall point but one small quibble. Women's basketball also generally flies to games. (Since away games are usually in cities that are close to each other they will often fly to the first city, bus from there to the second city, and then fly home). But your point holds. The smaller, non-revenue sports would be negatively affected.

[ShockerMas]

They're in an FCS level football league called the Pioneer League. Drake is in there also. It is a non-scholly college football league, and is essentially a glorified club sport. It is not relevant under what most people would consider the umbrella of D1 college football. 'Participation ribbon' football, if you will. Not a consideration in conference realignment in the slightest.

Not sure I'd quite say it's a glorified club sport. The conference has an auto-bid to the FCS National Championship Tournament and I doubt it's particularly cheap to fly entire teams all across the country with the spread out layout of the conference.

But yeah I agree with you that it isn't a consideration in conference realignment. That's why my original statement was that it would be ridiculous to rule out two schools with FCS football in the PL while allowing another school like that in, with that being the only criteria the OP gave

[Topshock]

The travel issue is not limited to the men's basketball team. It also has a big affect on volleyball, women's basketball, men's & women's tennis, baseball and softball. It would not have great impact on golf and the track & field teams depending on where the championships are held. These are teams that generally bus to their events. This is issue is not limited to only cost but also to time spent traveling. The travel issue has very little to do with men's basketball since they fly pretty much everywhere as it is. The travel issue has to do with all your other sports.

As I said the 5 schools in the Western division are very little more travel than we have now. In my opinion the increased television package revenue would pay for the travel in the other sports many times over.

[Shocker-maniac]

Not bad...

Why anyone would want to be in a league with ORU is beyond me.

[Dave Stalwart]

Why anyone would want to be in a league with ORU is beyond me.

I think we've reached a point where anything seems better

[1972Shocker]

Screw it, let's blow it all up! Create a true Mid-West(ish) basketball ONLY conference.

We start with the flagship, of course:
- WSU

The five close Big East Schools:
- Creighton (welcome back)
- Butler
- Depaul
- Xavier
- Marquette

The close A10 school:
- SLU

Now, we add the outsiders:
- UAB
- Belmount
- ORU (wost basketball school, but helps even out the map some)

If you go to 12 schools:
- Detroit
- Cleveland State

(Schools like Murry State, Dayton, Valpo, etc. were not considered due to having football programs)

Gives a good mix of "media markets" and successful basketball programs.

What would this look like mapped up @DJ06Shocker? ;)

Personally, I like the idea of a basketball ONLY conference. I also like the 10-team conference that allows for full round robin play.

The big issue is can you find enough of those teams that you could actually entice that would make an attractive group. I am not sure pulling 5 teams from the Big Priest is doable. Not even sure you could pull 1 team out of there. If those teams are off the table could you do it. You might have to reach for some teams that maybe don't have a great traditions but do have great potential in the right league. I think SLU is more likely to hold out for a Big Priest invite than to join a totally new league but let's assume we could entice them. Perhaps we don't need to totally blow it up.


Wichita State
Bradley
Northern Iowa
Illinois State
Missouri State
Denver
Milwaukee
UAB
St. Louis
Belmont

Northern Iowa and Illinois State would have the smallest MSA to draw from although UNI is only 60 miles up the road from Cedar Rapids. Unfortunately, Iowa probably owns the Cedar Rapids market.

You wonder if UNI, ILS and MSU will always be looking to move to a football playing conference, maybe even at the bottom rung of the FBS division. They are welcome to it. Omaha and Arkansas-Little Rock might be potential non-football playing candidates in good markets. Tulsa would be perfect if they would ever decide to drop football. Not sure about Detroit or Cleveland State. It is just very hard to find enough teams in the Mid-West to put together a basketball-only conference. The attendance at some of these schools is no better than what we already have in the Valley but perhaps being in a better league would help to remedy that.

Perhaps playing this slow and seeing how the landscape continues to develop is the way to go for Wichita State. What the ultimate outcome of the P-5 power play will be still remains to be seen and could substantially change the landscape of collegiate sports. If the Valley football playing schools do in fact decide to move to other climes than this kind of reorganization could happen organically in the Valley.

One interesting thing with the current makeup of the Valley is that of the 5 teams that play FCS football 4 are in the smallest MSA's in the Valley with only MSU in the top half of the Valley in MSA.

[Dave Stalwart]

Personally, I like the idea of a basketball ONLY conference. I also like the 10-team conference that allows for full round robin play.

The big issue is can you find enough of those teams that you could actually entice that would make an attractive group. I am not sure pulling 5 teams from the Big Priest is doable. Not even sure you could pull 1 team out of there. If those teams are off the table could you do it. You might have to reach for some teams that maybe don't have a great traditions but do have great potential in the right league. I think SLU is more likely to hold out for a Big Priest invite than to join a totally new league but let's assume we could entice them. Perhaps we don't need to totally blow it up.


Wichita State
Bradley
Northern Iowa
Illinois State
Missouri State
Denver
Milwaukee
UAB
St. Louis
Belmont

Northern Iowa and Illinois State would have the smallest MSA to draw from although UNI is only 60 miles up the road from Cedar Rapids. Unfortunately, Iowa probably owns the Cedar Rapids market.

You wonder if UNI, ILS and MSU will always be looking to move to a football playing conference, maybe even at the bottom rung of the FBS division. They are welcome to it. Omaha and Arkansas-Little Rock might be potential non-football playing candidates in good markets. Tulsa would be perfect if they would ever decide to drop football. Not sure about Detroit or Cleveland State. It is just very hard to find enough teams in the Mid-West to put together a basketball-only conference. The attendance at some of these schools is not better than what we already have in the Valley but perhaps being in a better league would help to remedy that.

Perhaps playing this slow and seeing how the landscape continues to develop is the way to go for Wichita State. What the ultimate outcome of the P-5 power play will be still remains to be seen and could substantially change the landscape of collegiate sports. If the Valley football playing schools do in fact decide to move to other climes than this kind of reorganization could happen organically in the Valley.

One interesting thing with the current makeup of the Valley is that of the 5 teams that play FCS football 4 are in the smallest MSA's in the Valley with only MSU in the top half of the Valley in MSA.

I like your list. To me, there's just something about having large cities involved that interests me most. When you look at the MVC, Horizon and maybe even the Summit, there are a handful of huge state schools in large cities that I like. It seems to me like putting all of us together would potentially access and excite the fan bases and maybe actually create a buzz that didn't used to exist. Sure would be fun but I won't get too hopeful. Your list pretty much nails the ones I would want to see, and there are a handful of other similar options. Sadly it's a lot of the MVC schools that would need to go.

Midwestern Metropolitan Conference?

[60Shock]

I like your list. To me, there's just something about having large cities involved that interests me most. When you look at the MVC, Horizon and maybe even the Summit, there are a handful of huge state schools in large cities that I like. It seems to me like putting all of us together would potentially access and excite the fan bases and maybe actually create a buzz that didn't used to exist. Sure would be fun but I won't get too hopeful. Your list pretty much nails the ones I would want to see, and there are a handful of other similar options. Sadly it's a lot of the MVC schools that would need to go.

Midwestern Metropolitan Conference?

DJO6, your comment about city schools is what was so great about the 'old' Valley - Wichita, Tulsa, St. Louis, Houston, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, Detroit, along with Drake and Bradley, and others.

[myopicraiderfan]

Lets just dissolve the Valley and the A10 to drop Loyola, Drake, Evansville, Fordham, Duquesne, and the Bonnies. We would then have two divisions The Valley and the Atlantic. The Valley with WSU, UNI, Bradley, Ill St, Ind St, So Ill, Missouri St, Dayton, and STL while the Atlantic has URI, Umass, Lasalle, St Joe, the Georges, VCU, Richmond, and Davidson. Play two games each per division and 4 games against the other division chosen by the league to enhance RPI. Both conferences would be dissolved so NCAA units would follow the teams that earned them and TV contracts could be renegotiated. Conference tourneys could rotate between STL and Barclays.

I think that's more likely than the MW or AAC asking a single basketball school to join.

[Shocker1976]

Lets just dissolve the Valley and the A10 to drop Loyola, Drake, Evansville, Fordham, Duquesne, and the Bonnies. We would then have two divisions The Valley and the Atlantic. The Valley with WSU, UNI, Bradley, Ill St, Ind St, So Ill, Missouri St, Dayton, and STL while the Atlantic has URI, Umass, Lasalle, St Joe, the Georges, VCU, Richmond, and Davidson. Play two games each per division and 4 games against the other division chosen by the league to enhance RPI. Both conferences would be dissolved so NCAA units would follow the teams that earned them and TV contracts could be renegotiated. Conference tourneys could rotate between STL and Barclays.

I think that's more likely than the MW or AAC asking a single basketball school to join.

myopicraiderfan, you have presented the first realistic opportunity for the Shockers to improve their Conference alignment.

I have spent more than a few hours modeling different conference opportunities for the Shockers and concluded that no invitations to join were likely to come to the Shockers from the AAC and the MWC. If the University Presidents of the MVC and A10 would approve a merger of the two conferences the result would be a Conference with two divisions both of which would be superior IMO to the New Big East and on par with the P5 Conferences.

[WheatShock]

I know that joining the AAC has been mentioned as a possibility to bring the league to 12 schools in all sports both here and other places, but does anyone know if the AAC is actually looking to add?