Any news on Orukpe?

[SHOXAAC]

@SHOXMVC:, you say "based on the expectations that were presented to us by HCGM and media, big, fast, athletic, etc...he is performing well under expectations...not exactly a bust." Those are your expectations that he should be the #2 center after his first step on campus. Coaches/media did state that he is big, fast, athletic, etc. The fact that you ignored that they also stated he was "raw and inexperienced," has lead you to the incorrect conclusion that he is performing under realistic expectations. He is still all of the above (positive and negative).

You, and many others, believe that when a big man gets here that he is "game ready." That just isn't true and hasn't been for decades. Stutz has been ordinary for three years, though we expect a big senior season (I can't wait for the nay-sayers to come out of the wood work when he posts his first 7 point, 2 rebound effort). Despite Durley's huge offensive talent, it took him till his 4th year on campus before we knew he would pan out. Miller was pedestrian for four years. Before that, Troy Mack struggled until his last year on campus. Who was good from day 1? Top 75 player Kyle Wilson who had 1 year at Illinois and 1 on the bench before playing? We haven't had a 6-8+ player come in and average better than 7 points and 5 rebounds in 25 minutes since Darren Williams (though Rob Kampman was close).

Any WSU fan that expects a first year player to dominate the competition just isn't paying attention to the whole story! That may be changing with juco's like Carl Hall and Cleanthony Early coming in, but that is not the yearly norm.

Be careful putting words in peoples mouths. Show me the quote where I said EO, Stutz or any other "big man" is game ready when he gets here. EO was a non-entity at 3-Rivers...a non-entity here last year. I have said I am cautiously optimistic he has improved enough to spell Stutz for 10-15 minutes. His improvement scale, it appears, from his one year at 3-rivers to his current skill set this year is minor IMO.

142+ pages of anticipation on SN over the past 4 years falls a little flat in terms of expectation. Was the countless hours the coaching staff spent on him really worth it from a basketball standpoint? Could that time have been better spent cultivating another post prospect? He is a great young man, but his current skill set on the court falls short based on the "general" expectations from all the different sources.

He wears a Shocker uni, so I will root for him always!!!

[Kung Wu]

Was the countless hours the coaching staff spent on him really worth it from a basketball standpoint? Could that time have been better spent cultivating another post prospect?

We'll let you know at the end of next year!

[ShockTalk]

Being big, fast, and athletic does not always translate into success at any and all sports. Some athletes are good at anything they try. Others may be great at one, not so good at another. Others, despite all the athletic ability in the world, it just doesn't translate into much success. Being very intelligent and a high IQ doesn't necessarily mean a person will ever have that high of a basketball IQ. EO may be one of the most athletic big men to wear a Shocker uniform, particularly when you consider he's 7'. However, EO may be a soccer player in a basketball player's body. His hands may continue to improve, but slowly, and may never be that good. He may never shoot a ball well other than a dunk or layup. Many times, a coach believes and hopes they can teach these things quickly, but with some, the transition into moderate D-I success is just slow, sometimes more than the 4-5 years that college coaches have to work with them. As I said before, I hope he finally "gets it" and it all comes together for him. Time will tell, but he's running out of college years to have his basketball skills come close to matching his athletic body.

I think some here, including myself, were hoping that EO would come along like Dinma Odiakosa. However, at this point, I think he will match somewhere between Dinma's sophmore and junior year during his senior year, which I think will make him a very serviceable center for the Shocker team that will be around him. Please remind me to eat crow if he does better as it will be a pleasure to do so.

[WuDrWu]

Does anyone think Gregg is making it up when he says EO is playing like an all conference player in practice 2 days in a row?

[WuDrWu]

By the way, to answer someone's question, yes, it has been worth the time, and at WSU, it will ALWAYS be worth the time when you are talking about an athletically gifted 7 footer.

[wufan]

Be careful putting words in peoples mouths. Show me the quote where I said EO, Stutz or any other "big man" is game ready when he gets here. EO was a non-entity at 3-Rivers...a non-entity here last year. I have said I am cautiously optimistic he has improved enough to spell Stutz for 10-15 minutes. His improvement scale, it appears, from his one year at 3-rivers to his current skill set this year is minor IMO.

142+ pages of anticipation on SN over the past 4 years falls a little flat in terms of expectation. Was the countless hours the coaching staff spent on him really worth it from a basketball standpoint? Could that time have been better spent cultivating another post prospect? He is a great young man, but his current skill set on the court falls short based on the "general" expectations from all the different sources.

He wears a Shocker uni, so I will root for him always!!!

Sorry, I thought "game ready" was equivalent to "realistic expectation would have been for him to play much more behind our 1 true post player," and "reasonable 12-15 minute player last season," when I was lumping you in with other folks that think he has underperformed. I also don't think that you can base under performing "realistic expectations" on one season that was dominated by three seniors and a 7-0 junior. Despite the fact that we were over-loaded at the 4 and 5 positions, EO STILL got minutes, just not a lot. At the end of this season, we all will have had a reasonable sample size on which to judge him. I think he can be an 8 and 10 guy with 2+ blocks per game (given 25 mpg) as a senior, but I'm just not sure yet as I don't have a large enough sample size.

Here's a question; If EO only plays 18 minutes and averages 4.5 points and 3.5 boards as a seniior, will it have been a waste of a scholarship?

[pinstripers]

If I have a 4 and a 7, is it a good gamble to double down?.............always

[Kung Wu]

If I have a 4 and a 7, is it a good gamble to double down?.............always

Unless the dealer is showing an Ace. But your point is well taken.

[Capitol Shock II]

EO would start for any other Valley team.

[WstateU]

By the way, to answer someone's question, yes, it has been worth the time, and at WSU, it will ALWAYS be worth the time when you are talking about an athletically gifted 7 footer.

+1000 @WuDrWu:

[WstateU]

EO would start for any other Valley team.

In a...



Maybe not CU?

[SHOXAAC]

Sorry, I thought "game ready" was equivalent to "realistic expectation would have been for him to play much more behind our 1 true post player," and "reasonable 12-15 minute player last season," when I was lumping you in with other folks that think he has underperformed. I also don't think that you can base under performing "realistic expectations" on one season that was dominated by three seniors and a 7-0 junior. Despite the fact that we were over-loaded at the 4 and 5 positions, EO STILL got minutes, just not a lot. At the end of this season, we all will have had a reasonable sample size on which to judge him. I think he can be an 8 and 10 guy with 2+ blocks per game (given 25 mpg) as a senior, but I'm just not sure yet as I don't have a large enough sample size.

Here's a question; If EO only plays 18 minutes and averages 4.5 points and 3.5 boards as a seniior, will it have been a waste of a scholarship?

A huge disappointment and here is why. Here are the stats of the most recent senior post players at WSU.

JT Durley, as a senior, was for the most part our starter at the 5 last year (Stutz only started 5 games). Stats: 11.2p/4.9r. He could score in many diverse ways and was the number one player opposing coaches worried about.

Phillip Thomasson, as a senior, was the primary 5 for us. Stats: 9.3p/4.3r. He was tough and took charges like none other.

In 2006-07 take your pick on what senior played the 5 more, Kyle Wilson or Ryan Martin. Wilson's stats: 13.7p/5.2r. He was a huge threat all over the court and averaged about 2 assists per game. Martin's stats: 7.6p/5.8r. He shot 59% from the field was a tenacious defender.

Oh, and how about a guy named Paul Miller, as a senior. Stats: 13.1p/6.6r. I don't even think I need to make a further case for Miller.

As far as what Stutz might do as a senior. It isn't a stretch to think he could match the year Miller had.

So to your original question...yes, 4.5p/3.5r would be a huge disappointment. And YES, a waste of a scholarship based on the time, resources and overall attention that has been put into the whole process.

[Steeleshocker]

[/B]

A huge disappointment and here is why. Here are the stats of the most recent senior post players at WSU.

JT Durley, as a senior, was for the most part our starter at the 5 last year (Stutz only started 5 games). Stats: 11.2p/4.9r. He could score in many diverse ways and was the number one player opposing coaches worried about.

Phillip Thomasson, as a senior, was the primary 5 for us. Stats: 9.3p/4.3r. He was tough and took charges like none other.

In 2006-07 take your pick on what senior played the 5 more, Kyle Wilson or Ryan Martin. Wilson's stats: 13.7p/5.2r. He was a huge threat all over the court and averaged about 2 assists per game. Martin's stats: 7.6p/5.8r. He shot 59% from the field was a tenacious defender.

Oh, and how about a guy named Paul Miller, as a senior. Stats: 13.1p/6.6r. I don't even think I need to make a further case for Miller.

As far as what Stutz might do as a senior. It isn't a stretch to think he could match the year Miller had.

So to your original question...yes, 4.5p/3.5r would be a huge disappointment. And YES, a waste of a scholarship based on the time, resources and overall attention that has been put into the whole process.

OK, so to make this interesting (someone will have to write this down) what is the MINIMUM level of pts/reb that EO needs to have his Senior year to be worth the effort? Also, I think if EO gets 4.5/3.5 THIS YEAR we will be a pretty darn good team. I think he can get that average in rebounds (probably more if he gets 15 min/gm) but I'm iffy on the points.

[WstateU]

Give 'em hell @SHOXMVC:

[SHOXAAC]

EO would start for any other Valley team.

The only reason EO would start for Bradley is that Anthony Thompson got suspended and Will Egolf is recovering from an ACL. Otherwise, he doesn't start at Bradley.

He doesn't start at Creighton...end of story there.

I wouldn't see him starting over Seth VanDeest at Drake, who will miss the first few games recovering from shoulder surgery this summer.

EO might start over Evansville's Matt Peeler. Does a starting lineup of Ned Cox, Colt Ryan, Denver Holmes, Kenny Harris and EO put fear into anyone?..I doubt it.

There is no chance EO starts over Jackie Carmichael at Ill. St.

Forget EO starting ahead of Myles Walker at Indiana St. In fact backup post Jake Kitchell is a pretty serviceable player.

Cracking the starting lineup at Missouri State would be suspect with Caleb Patterson in the middle. Patterson is nothing to be feared, but a stable player in the middle.

There are big questions at post for Northern Iowa. There is nothing scary about Austin Pehl or Seth Tuttle, so I will give EO a chance to start at NIU.

Southern Illinois has nobody at the post, so the hound dogs would be a no-brainer for EO to start.

EO has hopes of starting at about 3 schools in the Valley.