Any news on Orukpe?

[Aargh]

There's one stat that isn't kept that needs to be watched when Orukpe is on the floor. Fouls drawn.

Opposing teams are going to foul Orukpe if he gets his hands on the ball because he can hit dunks, but not FT's. That strategy works briefly. Then the opponent has to sit their post player because of foul trouble. Stutz draws his share of fouls, too.

There has been some speculation that Orukpe would be starting for many Valley teams. That's probably true. As a BACKUP, I think he's easily the best backup post player in the league.

So. let's say that Stutz and Patterson at MSU go at it and they each get 2 fould in the first 10 minutes of the game. Now, we've got Orukpe in against MSU's backup post player, who has to foul Orukpe or watch a dunk fest. I don't think it's a big stretch to think that Orukpe can beat the Valley's backup post players to the basket. Orukpe's guy is going to have 2 fouls before the half is over.

WSU can afford 4 fouls on Orukpe and 4 on Stutz and still be "okay". That's 8 fouls out of the post position. Other Valley teams can't afford 5 fouls and still be "okay". If Orukpe can pick up a foul or two on an opponent's #1 post player, Stutz s going to have a fun game when the opposing post player has to play soft to avoid fouling.

[Jeffrey Korchek]

WSU can afford 4 fouls on Orukpe and 4 on Stutz and still be "okay". That's 8 fouls out of the post position. Other Valley teams can't afford 5 fouls and still be "okay". If Orukpe can pick up a foul or two on an opponent's #1 post player, Stutz s going to have a fun game when the opposing post player has to play soft to avoid fouling.

Lots of double teams is what will happen. How does Orukpe look getting out of the double team? I don't remember him struggling too much the other night, but I don't really remember either way, frankly.

[im4wsu]

Lots of double teams is what will happen. How does Orukpe look getting out of the double team? I don't remember him struggling too much the other night, but I don't really remember either way, frankly.

I've seen EO three times this year. He is progressing adequately to better-than adequately in passing out of double teams.

I hope he can get 10-15 minutes a game non-conference so he can continue to develop. Had EO been on another MVC team, he would have had significant minutes last year and be ahead of where he is right now.

[SHOXAAC]

OK, so to make this interesting (someone will have to write this down) what is the MINIMUM level of pts/reb that EO needs to have his Senior year to be worth the effort? Also, I think if EO gets 4.5/3.5 THIS YEAR we will be a pretty darn good team. I think he can get that average in rebounds (probably more if he gets 15 min/gm) but I'm iffy on the points.

There are so many intangibles, especially with EO. He is a terrible free throw shooter. He is the worst passer of any big man we have had in recent memory. How many points is he going to cost us compared to a potential 4.5/3.5?

Yes, he is as big and athletic as any post player we have ever had, but give me a Paul Mokeski (an un-athletic player with poise, savy and good judgement) type player any day. Against ESU, EO missed on 2 block shots and the Hornets got the offensive rebound because he was out of position. He just doesn't have the basketball experience to have cultivated the poise, savy and good judgement that another big man we could have pursued.

[im4wsu]

There are so many intangibles, especially with EO. He is a terrible free throw shooter. He is the worst passer of any big man we have had in recent memory. How many points is he going to cost us compared to a potential 4.5/3.5?

Yes, he is as big and athletic as any post player we have ever had, but give me a Paul Mokeski (an un-athletic player with poise, savy and good judgement) type player any day. Against ESU, EO missed on 2 block shots and the Hornets got the offensive rebound because he was out of position. He just doesn't have the basketball experience to have cultivated the poise, savy and good judgement that another big man we could have pursued.

Let me guess, you're not a fan of EO. I think we get it. I also hope that you are very wrong.

btw, let's have a list of those other big men who are better that WSU had a legitimate shot at acquiring? Do you have a sufficient supply of paper to contain such a huge list?

[SHOXAAC]

Let me guess, you're not a fan of EO. I think we get it. I also hope that you are very wrong.

btw, let's have a list of those other big men who are better that WSU had a legitimate shot at acquiring? Do you have a sufficient supply of paper to contain such a huge list?

im4wsu, I hope I am wrong as well. It's not that I am not a fan of EO, I just question what we have gotten vs. all that has been put into him. And by the way, don't give me this "give me names BS." That's a weak sister way of debating this issue. It's a matter of opinion and the body of work to this point. Just have a reasonable debate and not require such an idiotic rationale just because you have nothing else. Believe it or not, your opinion is good enough for me. We just disagree and that is fine.

[1979Shocker]

When you consider whether a player is doing enough for the team, you need to look at both offense and defense. EO might not be scoring much, but he's not giving up much either. Last year in some games it seemed like GS was giving up just about as many points as he was scoring.

[im4wsu]

im4wsu, I hope I am wrong as well. It's not that I am not a fan of EO, I just question what we have gotten vs. all that has been put into him. And by the way, don't give me this "give me names BS." That's a weak sister way of debating this issue. It's a matter of opinion and the body of work to this point. Just have a reasonable debate and not require such an idiotic rationale just because you have nothing else. Believe it or not, your opinion is good enough for me. We just disagree and that is fine.

That's a baby type reply don't make me give the names. It takes fortitude to stand behind your statements, so give it up...WHO? You are the one who said that we should have "another big man we could have pursued". instead of EO, not me. So, who? You're saying EO was not the best choice at the time; so who?

At this point EO has not provided many minutes for the Shockers. But he is entering his junior year. Look at Phil Mendelson at the beginning of his junior year. Look at Gene Wiley at the beginning of his junior year. Look at Paul Miller at the beginning of his junior year. And each of those guys had a chance to develop prior to the beginning of their junior year because they didn't have Durley, Stutz etc to compete for playing time with.

So, tell me, WHO?

[Dan]

When you consider whether a player is doing enough for the team, you need to look at both offense and defense. EO might not be scoring much, but he's not giving up much either. Last year in some games it seemed like GS was giving up just about as many points as he was scoring.

Definitely true of JT Durley

[SHOXAAC]

That's a baby type reply don't make me give the names. It takes fortitude to stand behind your statements, so give it up...WHO? You are the one who said that we should have "another big man we could have pursued". instead of EO, not me. So, who? You're saying EO was not the best choice at the time; so who?

At this point EO has not provided many minutes for the Shockers. But he is entering his junior year. Look at Phil Mendelson at the beginning of his junior year. Look at Gene Wiley at the beginning of his junior year. Look at Paul Miller at the beginning of his junior year. And each of those guys had a chance to develop prior to the beginning of their junior year because they didn't have Durley, Stutz etc to compete for playing time with.

So, tell me, WHO?

You mean names will make you feel better and sleep like a BABY tonight. Sorry you're so insecure that you need a pacifier like names from 4 or 5 years ago. This is a fan board for fans to exchange ideas and opinions. I didn't think I needed to be a member of the WSU coaching staff from 5 years ago, or be a college recruiting website expert to give my opinion that based on past and current FACTS we would have been better off going a different direction than EO.

Try and stay focused on the task at hand, like how a recruit that has well over 100 pages on this fan board had 2 years at 3 Rivers (one year as a RS) for one of the best juco coaches in the country where he averaged 5p/6r/4b. He missed 7 games due to injury, failed to even play in a few other games. Then he gets here where he averaged 5 minutes, 1 flippin point and less than 2 rebounds per game last year. TELL ME, WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN YOUR EXPECTATION, OR ANYONE ELSES FOR THAT MATTER, AFTER 2 YEARS IN JUCO AND ONE YEAR HERE?

There have been several on this board who have commented that HCGM had many opportunities to play EO more last year in blow out games...and he didn't. Why, because apparently he couldn't trust that EO was even ready for that.

[im4wsu]

You mean names will make you feel better and sleep like a BABY tonight. Sorry you're so insecure that you need a pacifier like names from 4 or 5 years ago. This is a fan board for fans to exchange ideas and opinions. I didn't think I needed to be a member of the WSU coaching staff from 5 years ago, or be a college recruiting website expert to give my opinion that based on past and current FACTS we would have been better off going a different direction than EO.

Try and stay focused on the task at hand, like how a recruit that has well over 100 pages on this fan board had 2 years at 3 Rivers (one year as a RS) for one of the best juco coaches in the country where he averaged 5p/6r/4b. He missed 7 games due to injury, failed to even play in a few other games. Then he gets here where he averaged 5 minutes, 1 flippin point and less than 2 rebounds per game last year. TELL ME, WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN YOUR EXPECTATION, OR ANYONE ELSES FOR THAT MATTER, AFTER 2 YEARS IN JUCO AND ONE YEAR HERE?

There have been several on this board who have commented that HCGM had many opportunities to play EO more last year in blow out games...and he didn't. Why, because apparently he couldn't trust that EO was even ready for that.

Just like starting the "we should have a better player than EO", you also started the "adjective" -reply with thwe word weak ass.

When you grow up, I will continue a reasonable conversation.

bte, what does a 100 pages of your or anyvbody else's comments on a message board have to do with the ability of a player in the coming two years? Is that somwthing else to hide behind?

[wufan]

[/B]

A huge disappointment and here is why. Here are the stats of the most recent senior post players at WSU.

JT Durley, as a senior, was for the most part our starter at the 5 last year (Stutz only started 5 games). Stats: 11.2p/4.9r. He could score in many diverse ways and was the number one player opposing coaches worried about.

Phillip Thomasson, as a senior, was the primary 5 for us. Stats: 9.3p/4.3r. He was tough and took charges like none other.

In 2006-07 take your pick on what senior played the 5 more, Kyle Wilson or Ryan Martin. Wilson's stats: 13.7p/5.2r. He was a huge threat all over the court and averaged about 2 assists per game. Martin's stats: 7.6p/5.8r. He shot 59% from the field was a tenacious defender.

Oh, and how about a guy named Paul Miller, as a senior. Stats: 13.1p/6.6r. I don't even think I need to make a further case for Miller.

As far as what Stutz might do as a senior. It isn't a stretch to think he could match the year Miller had.

So to your original question...yes, 4.5p/3.5r would be a huge disappointment. And YES, a waste of a scholarship based on the time, resources and overall attention that has been put into the whole process.

@SHOXMVC:, I asked a very specific question as to whether that stat line for a senior would be a "waste of a scholarship" because that was Aaron Ellis' stat line last year. I would be disapointed if EO played 18 minutes and only grabbed 3.5 boards. Anyway, the staff did invest a significant amount of time in EO, and I think they learned a lot as a result, but if a big man can put up Aaron Ellis like game, the scholly wasn't wasted IMO.

[McShocker]

I don't really care if some fans are disappointed in what EO has done so far. That is every fan's right. I don't really understand it though, because it is hard enough being a fan of WSU without having a negative outlook on things. That said, I have three comments regarding this topic:

1. Any production from a big man before his junior year is gravy. EO is just starting his junior year. We should not even begin the discussion on whether or not he is a disappointment until after this season.

2. There are a lot of fans who are too hung up on watching the elite schools or the NBA when developing their expectations for post players. The number of players who can do those things are few and far between. We all love how much Paul Miller improved before his senior season, but the thing that bothers me about that is how little appreciation he gets for his junior year. He was not MVC player of the year material yet, but I'd take junior Paul Miller on my team any day and some of you with the unrealistic expectations probably think I'm crazy for that.

3. Anybody who lets the length of a thread on a message board affect their expectations for a college athlete is an idiot. Period.

[KSUUWSU]

I enjoy reading everyone's opinion here. Mine is very simple. I do not worry about who could've been recruited or lament about what could've been. EO is a Shocker! And with that I will support EO and the team...period.

[WuShock Reaper]

i enjoy reading everyone's opinion here. Mine is very simple. I do not worry about who could've been recruited or lament about what could've been. Eo is a shocker! And with that i will support eo and the team...period.

amen!!!