2015-16 Media love thread

[SHOCKvalue]

Turgeon's salary here wasn't anywhere NEAR worth staying for, relative to the opportunities elsewhere. It was a different time and circumstance. I don't think you can call his decision stupid. I think it was an easy decision for him.

Turgeon's salary when he left was $750,000/year, and he was replaced by Marshall at the same $750,000/year. Both were relatively decent numbers back in 2007, before college coaching salaries hit hyperdrive. Even today, that figure eclipses all current MVC head coaches except for Jacobson, who even 12 months ago was still roughly in the 2007 Turgeon range. I couldn't find any reference to Turgeon's starting salary at A&M, but when he left four years later in 2011 his replacement (a guy with a similar resume to Turgeon circa-2007) was paid $1M/year.

Turgeon didn't leave because of money; he left because of his "at this level" inner narrative, and the fact that he fell asleep at the wheel in regards to recruiting, and knew the following couple of seasons were going to be as bad or worse than the one he just concluded. If Turgeon wouldn't have taken the A&M job that year then in all likelihood his stock would have tanked and he'd still be here winning 20 games in a good season, 25 games in a great season, and making the NCAA's every 5 years or so. The WSU fan base would be content as UNI's doppelganger because they would be blissfully unaware of the alternate reality.

He is an "above-average" or "high mediocre" or "good but not great" or whatever you want to call it, coach. Just because the stars have possibly aligned for him again this year, much like in 2006, doesn't change his career trendline, which has been on plateau for a good decade now.

[Shocker1976]

didn't ralph miller receive a gift when he was chosen as wichita state head coach? and he left prior to dave stallworth's senior season?! hell, he was as bad as turgeon/fogler.. (ku/unc guys never see wichita state as anything other than chopped liver) but a better coach on the floor. do not hire ku/unc guys anymore!!!!!!!!!

I would recommend you reconsider your condemnation of Ralph Miller; the Shocker team was loaded when he left for Iowa (IMO WU should never have let Ralph leave but circumstance were different at WU in the early 1960's versus WSU in 2015). Recall that even the lack of coaching provided by Thompson did not prevent the Shocker's from reaching the Final Four without Dave the Rave and Nate Bowman. If Bowman had not become academically ineligible the Shocker's performance in the FF would have been IMO dramatically different.

Regards RM being a "gift" from Phog I was trying to illustrate that Miller was another acorn from the Phog coaching tree in the same manner as Adolph Rupp (who established Kentucky basketball) and Dean Smith (who established North Carolina basketball).

[Shocker1976]

Marshall is the greatest coach we've ever seen here and he is not replaceable. Fred and Ron are the best backcourt duo we've ever had. They, however are replaceable.

Gene Smithson (he left when I was 7 so feel free to correct me) was a great evaluator of talent and knew how to utilize them, but was not a great coach. He also had demons that prevented him from being successful to the level of Nolan Richardson.

IMO Marshall is a better coach than Gene Smithson but the Shockers' have never had a better recruiter of talented basketball players than GS.

[Dan]

IMO Marshall is a better coach than Gene Smithson but the Shockers' have never had a better recruiter of talented basketball players than GS.

Different era, no shoe company deals, online content, recruiting services, etc. Hopefully 3G will start landing some high profile bigs at some point. He's still in an upward trajectory.

[Shocker1976]

Marshall is the greatest WSU coach and probably will go down that way, but the team is still capable of getting a good coach if he ever does leave. Just won't be AS good. Same with players after Fred/Ron.

Agree that Marshall is a Top Tier Coach and will be recognized by most as the best coach ever at WSU; but he will be replaced some day. I hope and pray that Marshall and Sexton are preparing a succession plan to ensure Marshall's replacement is also a Top Tier Coach. If FVV's future is in coaching basketball and he demonstrates the same level of excellence in coaching as he does in playing, then what an opportunity for Marshall to "pass the baton to one of his own."

[SHOCKvalue]

Different era, no shoe company deals, online content, recruiting services, etc.

Or TV money, which at its core is the major change agent in college sports... for the worse.

[shockmonster]

I don't take a consistent Top 15 ranking and being in the national discussion for deep runs and players for All Americans for granted. I do think Top 40 and NCAA Tourney consistency is more realistic.

[ShockTalk]

IMO Marshall is a better coach than Gene Smithson but the Shockers' have never had a better recruiter of talented basketball players than GS.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but it certainly didn't hurt that the Wichita area was a hotbed of basketball talent at the time.

[60Shock]

Barring any implausible scenario, Shaka Smart has made Texas a non-issue for our annual spring worry-fest for at least the next few seasons.

Also, barring any implausible scenario, Marshall's new $3 million contract has made virtually all but a handful of elite programs a non-issue for our annual spring worry-fest for the foreseeable future. Seth's reasoning is normally sound, but on this point his insinuation seems somewhat odd and ignorant.

The great thing about Shaka taking over Texas is that if he is a success, he will likely remain there for an undetermined number of years. And if he fails, why would GM even consider trying to right that ship?

[Kung Wu]

Turgeon's salary when he left was $750,000/year, and he was replaced by Marshall at the same $750,000/year. Both were relatively decent numbers back in 2007, before college coaching salaries hit hyperdrive. Even today, that figure eclipses all current MVC head coaches except for Jacobson, who even 12 months ago was still roughly in the 2007 Turgeon range. I couldn't find any reference to Turgeon's starting salary at A&M, but when he left four years later in 2011 his replacement (a guy with a similar resume to Turgeon circa-2007) was paid $1M/year.

Turgeon didn't leave because of money; he left because of his "at this level" inner narrative, and the fact that he fell asleep at the wheel in regards to recruiting, and knew the following couple of seasons were going to be as bad or worse than the one he just concluded. If Turgeon wouldn't have taken the A&M job that year then in all likelihood his stock would have tanked and he'd still be here winning 20 games in a good season, 25 games in a great season, and making the NCAA's every 5 years or so. The WSU fan base would be content as UNI's doppelganger because they would be blissfully unaware of the alternate reality.

He is an "above-average" or "high mediocre" or "good but not great" or whatever you want to call it, coach. Just because the stars have possibly aligned for him again this year, much like in 2006, doesn't change his career trendline, which has been on plateau for a good decade now.

Yup.

The only part we don't agree about is that money wasn't a consideration. He left for all the above reasons. Marshall had a pretty substantial pay increase when he left Winthrop, if I recall. Money is always part of the consideration when moving "up".

[Kung Wu]

Agree that Marshall is a Top Tier Coach and will be recognized by most as the best coach ever at WSU; but he will be replaced some day. I hope and pray that Marshall and Sexton are preparing a succession plan to ensure Marshall's replacement is also a Top Tier Coach. If FVV's future is in coaching basketball and he demonstrates the same level of excellence in coaching as he does in playing, then what an opportunity for Marshall to "pass the baton to one of his own."

I hope for Fred's sake he has a very long and successful career in the NBA, instead of coaching.

[Bluzrover]

Not to derail the "Marshall is the best WSU Coach Ever" discussion (and I'm not making a statement in that regard), but here's another article of interest that probably belongs in the Conner Frankamp thread but I'm putting it here: http://cjonline.com/sports/2015-10-1...a-state-system

We've all discussed Frankamp's need to play defense at Wichita State and this article addresses that from three different perspectives. Here's a quote from 3G:

"When he was in high school, (coach) Gary Squires at North couldn’t have him defend the way we want him to defend, because he needed him every second. (Frankamp) couldn’t be in foul trouble. He needed to hide him on defense. I’m not trying to hide him. I don’t hide anybody on defense, and if I have to hide you, it’s going to cut into the time that you play.”

[Jhook89]

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews

I don't think any one has posted this in a while. In the top 25 now. Seasons almost here!

[another shocker]

I would recommend you reconsider your condemnation of Ralph Miller; the Shocker team was loaded when he left for Iowa (IMO WU should never have let Ralph leave but circumstance were different at WU in the early 1960's versus WSU in 2015). Recall that even the lack of coaching provided by Thompson did not prevent the Shocker's from reaching the Final Four without Dave the Rave and Nate Bowman. If Bowman had not become academically ineligible the Shocker's performance in the FF would have been IMO dramatically different.

Regards RM being a "gift" from Phog I was trying to illustrate that Miller was another acorn from the Phog coaching tree in the same manner as Adolph Rupp (who established Kentucky basketball) and Dean Smith (who established North Carolina basketball).

don't lecture. gene johnson was here years before the phog allen gift came along (and frank mcguire/unc went undefeated in '57 and won the ncaa title vs. you-know-who). miller was lucky to start off at a place where basketball fit like hand and glove, even though his coaching talent would always see him through to some kind of success.

miller could, probably would, have won a national championship at wichita u.. had he stuck around.

[wushock27]

Expect an article on SB Nation tomorrow.... the gentleman writing it said he was working on it, but kept getting pulled away by the Louisville saga.