American Athletic Conference

[ShockdaWorld]

Or....it's all just a big hoax, HC3G and the Bardo trolling all of us about football in order to pull some of the summer time attention away from the team that mattes most around here, so they can go undisturbed as they get ready for Canada....

[SHOCKvalue]

I'm not sure why the $6M-$10M in annual operating costs and the $45M in facilities upgrades is blowing anyone's mind. If you did any research into this issue - like at all - you would have already surmised numbers such as that on your own accord. Is it just another opportunity for the chicken littles (that keep this entire town perpetually three decades in the past) to stand on their soapbox? I'm just glad we have a visionary like Bardo leading us through this, rather than what's basically WSU's equivalent to the greater Wichita "CAVE"-er.

The $45M is a drop in the bucket compared both to what has been spent on campus the past three to four years (roughly $200M to date), and what is being planned via the IC. It is not an unreachable number via a combo of University bonds (how the RSC, Wheatshocker Hall, and IC are financed) and a privately-sourced fundraising drive.

On the annual operational cost side:

*Report figures FBS football annual expenditures at ~$10M
*WSU's AD already operates at a ~$2M annual surplus
*An FBS program would generate $2.5M in annual revenues, per report

The remaining gap would likely come from increased institutional support (report calls this "allocated revenue"). The fact that WSU currently ranks on the very low percentile side of either FBS or FCS in this context is a very good thing. I'm thinking this caveat has been lost on some, and all they see is the chart.

Lastly, the report ranks WSU's current standing in athletics spending contrasted with FBS and FCS medians, which is completely and utterly asinine as they are comparing apples and oranges. Those figures are much more useful and contextual if you add in a hypothetical WSU football component; you have to adjust the comparables. If you do, WSU's spending compares very favorably.

[1972Shocker]

If WSU really wanted to invest this type of money, why not invest it to make the facilities for it existing sports to be the very best. Built a new basketball arena that can hold significantly more to boost revenue. Know who you are and accept it and just go and be there very best you can be. Unless there is somebody who willing to bankroll this endeavor, a good conference invitation coming - my fear is we will have a shitty football program and will draw away resources from what really makes this athletic department go - Mens Basketball.

Very nice recap and I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I also agree with your conclusions based on what we have seen so far although there may be more to come.

If WSU does decide it wants to add football it seems the key from a financial standpoint will be what the students are willing to kick in and what the big donors are willing to do. However, I think Dr. Bardo also has to be convinced it will achieve his ultimate goal of increasing traditional enrollment which was not addressed by the consultants although was touched on in the Winthrop case study.

[Shockerman]

Very nice recap and I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I also agree with your conclusions based on what we have seen so far although there may be more to come.

So instead of restarting football you would rather tear down Koch (Levitt) arena and build a new one its place? 45 million would be about a third of what we need to do that not to mention ruining something special for something like Quest? The money they are talking about hasn't been raised and would likely have to come from new sources that specifically want football back. I appreciate your opinion, and hell you might be right, but you have to look at this seperate from the sports we already have on campus.

*Edit: Response was meant for sb shock, not 1972.

[SHOCKvalue]

I read through it. The salients points are.

1. Decide what your target is - FCS/FBS.
2. If you are going FBS - you need invitation from existing conference. Does not recommend independent at any level.
3. WSU benchmarks at the institution is at the FCS level (in top 50th to 75th percentile) (this included athletic expenditures which is at the 75th %)
4. WSU benchmarks at the FBS level is generally at at or below the 25th percentile (this include Athletic expenditures which is below the 25%)
5. Bringing Revenue without football is greater than 75th percentile of FBS school (meaning WSU is in pretty good shape to continue doing what it is doing - this is because of MBB).
6. Significant university resources will be required to bring football back at any level (university will be stressed)
7. WSU already earns more money in the MVC than it would if it was in the C-USA, Sun Belt or MAC. American and Mountain West provide comparable revenue with American having higher cap.
8. FCS will generate somewhere between 0.5-1.5 million per year.
9. FBS will generate somewhere between 2.5/4/7 million per year (25th/50th/75th percentile).
10. FCS will require 3.2 Million per year for football (median)
11. FBC will require 16 million per year for football (median)

Timetable
2016-17 - Decide level, get conference invite, hire coaches, hire coordinators, start recruiting
2017-18 - Hire assistants, 1st signing class announced in February
2018-19 - Complete hiring assistants, announce second signing class, complete practice year
2019-20 - Complete first year of football
2020-21 - Complete 2nd year (or first year of FBS)

Using Cessna Station will require 21 to 28 Million dollars
Practice facility an additional 21 Million

If WSU really wanted to invest this type of money, why not invest it to make the facilities for it existing sports to be the very best. Built a new basketball arena that can hold significantly more to boost revenue. Know who you are and accept it and just go and be there very best you can be. Unless there is somebody who willing to bankroll this endeavor, a good conference invitation coming - my fear is we will have a shitty football program and will draw away resources from what really makes this athletic department go - Mens Basketball.

Does google have an SB Shock translation tool to help read this post in normal English? I feel like half of this post was written by a Nigerian prince who wants to share his inheritance with me if I only send him $1000 first.

SB is a known "no football" guy here on SN. If you truly want the meat and potatoes of the report I suggest you read it yourself, because the above has SB's personal biases build in.

[ShockerFever]

Does google have an SB Shock translation tool to help read this post in normal English? I feel like half of this post was written by a Nigerian prince who wants to share his inheritance with me if I only send him $1000 first.

SB is a known "no football" guy here on SN. If you truly want the meat and potatoes of the report I suggest you read it yourself, because the above has SB's personal biases build in.

I lol'ed.

I think SB types before he thinks a lot. He also hasn't mastered the use of his iPhone yet.

[ShockerFever]

By the way, Jacob Albret has no idea what he's talking about regarding the issue on Sports Daily.

No.

Idea.

[1972Shocker]

By the way, Jacob Albret has no idea what he's talking about regarding the issue on Sports Daily.

No.

Idea.

What is he saying about it?

[Aargh]

From the Eagle's article:

For FCS (formerly Division I-AA) football, the study estimates first-year expenses of $238,500 for coaches salaries and recruiting. After a year of preparation and one of practice, expenses rise to $5.8 million for the first season of play and $6.5 million for the second season.Coaches salaries, for example, account for $1 million of that $6.5 million total.

By the fifth year, the report projects revenue of $1.2 million.
WSU could play at the FCS level immediately. A two-year reclassification period is required to join FBS, a level that also requires conference membership.
▪ For FBS football, the costs increase from $585,451 after the sport is announced to $10.5 million five years later.

In that scenario, salary for coaches account for $2.5 million of the fifth-year budget. By the fifth year, the report projects revenue of $2.5 million.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

I'd be skeptical of any coaching success or longevity at those types of numbers. $580,000 for a coach's salary and first year recruiting budget for FCS FB? Five years into an FCS program, a total budget of $2.5million for the entire coaching staff?

The best you can possibly hope for at those pay scales is to be a stepping stone. Those kinds of numbers in football would lead to coaching success like Missouri State sees in basketball.

[Dave Stalwart]

The $45M is a drop in the bucket compared both to what has been spent on campus the past three to four years (roughly $200M to date), and what is being planned via the IC. It is not an unreachable number via a combo of University bonds (how the RSC, Wheatshocker Hall, and IC are financed) and a privately-sourced fundraising drive

This thought crossed my mind as well. I wonder how much WSU spent on building Shocker Hall alone? Or how much is being spent on the Innovation Campus?

[1972Shocker]

I have not read the entire report. I am neither for nor against football at WSU, because I haven't done nearly enough research to decide if I think it would be a good idea financially over the long run, or if it would actually get us into a better conference. That being said, I'm a little disappointed that everything I'm hearing points to this report as nothing more than a football research paper. We were told this wasn't about just football, but also about the entire Athletic Department and about if we could/should be finding a way out of the Valley. As someone stated earlier, if this entire report is indeed about football, then we were all misled in order for someone to push their football agenda. I'm not saying I disagree with the football agenda, but don't pee on my shoe and try to convince me it's raining.

[QUOTE]WSU views the report as a marker in the longer process of evaluating the athletic department. In December, president John Bardo said the evaluation of the athletic department could last a year. Although College Sports Solutions also gathered information on options should WSU want to leave the Missouri Valley Conference, that issue was largely ignored by the report released Monday, likely due to the confidential and sensitive nature of discussions with people in other conferences.[/QUOTE]

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

[SHOCKvalue]

This thought crossed my mind as well. I wonder how much WSU spent on building Shocker Hall alone? Or how much is being spent on the Innovation Campus?

I'm not going to look up the specific figures right now, but from memory Wheatshocker was around $60M, the RSC reno was around $35M, and the new experiential engineering building in the IC is around $35M. There's also a large chunk being spent on dirt work and infrastructure relating to the IC development as a whole.

Also, the new athletic department academic build being currently planned is around $15M.

[SHOCKvalue]

By the way, Jacob Albret has no idea what he's talking about regarding the issue on Sports Daily.

No.

Idea.

Always disappointing that mal-informed "those who can't" end up shaping public narratives. It is a problem across this country, with regards to the media.

If the report that was released yesterday trends public opinion on this issue one way or the other, then I'd really be disappointed at the public as a whole's cognitive ability and critical thinking skills. There's nothing in that report that should make a well-informed individual happy or sad.

[ShockerFever]

What is he saying about it?

It's a general ignorance to everything associated with the topic. It's littered throughout the entire show. If you care to, have a listen to the podcast later this afternoon.

[1972Shocker]

It's a general ignorance to everything associated with the topic. It's littered throughout the entire show. If you care to, have a listen to the podcast later this afternoon.

If Savage is on the show I would not be able to tolerate listening.