American Athletic Conference

[fastbow]

To turn this back to realignment, are there any options left to us at this point? From where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like anyone else is looking to add anything, especially basketball-only. We've mentioned before that we'd like to aspire to being something better than the "Gonzaga of the Midwest," but unless the Valley ups its game, it looks to me like that's got to be our model for the foreseeable future: beat the living tar out of a rather weak MVC year-in and year-out, then back it up with tournament wins. If we don't, national recognition is going to be an uphill battle, especially without a major media market to pander to.

And CBB_Fan, "near equal veal." Really dude? What do two not-quite-equitable servings of gourmet beef have to do with anything? Last I checked, ShockerFever was a human being, not an escaped experiment from K-State.

[SubGod22]

To turn this back to realignment, are there any options left to us at this point? From where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like anyone else is looking to add anything, especially basketball-only. We've mentioned before that we'd like to aspire to being something better than the "Gonzaga of the Midwest," but unless the Valley ups its game, it looks to me like that's got to be our model for the foreseeable future: beat the living tar out of a rather weak MVC year-in and year-out, then back it up with tournament wins. If we don't, national recognition is going to be an uphill battle, especially without a major media market to pander to.

And CBB_Fan, "near equal veal." Really dude? What do two not-quite-equitable servings of gourmet beef have to do with anything? Last I checked, ShockerFever was a human being, not an escaped experiment from K-State.

I'm not quite so negative on the MVC. Yes, I'd love to be in a stronger conference, but lets look at more than just this coming season.

Geno Ford has Bradley moving in the right direction and I truly believe that they'll be a player in another year or two and he'll keep building that program stronger. He's been quoted as saying that 3G and Wichita is the model he's using to build BU. I think most of us have been waiting for the Toasters to reemerge as one of the top teams and being that they can focus on basketball, it could very well happen. You can see what's going on there and I think they could probably pay Geno enough to keep him from bolting for just any old job.

Jake at UNI may never have a consistently dominant type program, or ever be dominant, but they should be pretty consistently solid as long as he's there and he's not going to bolt for more than a couple of jobs in the upper midwest. They should be a pretty consistent Top100 RPI type.

I like Lansing at ISUb, but I'm not sure what to think of them long term. As long as he's there, I think they'll be pretty solid, but I do wonder how they'll be when caveman is gone. I also wonder how long they'll keep Lansing there. Without him, I'm not sold on the Trees.

I know a lot of people here don't like ISU or Muller, but he's a young coach that's learning and like Ford, I believe he's using WSU as the blueprint for how to build that program. He's a passionate young coach and I think in a lot of ways is probably like 3G, especially when 3G was younger. He's already brought in a lot of talent at ISU but will need a few years to put it all together. They'll struggle this year, but I think they'll make strong improvements next season and beyond and we'll see them competing with us and Bradley at the top of the MVC.

I'm not going to throw Loyola under the bus right now either. They need a few years but Moser has a nice young team with what seems like a fair amount of talent. I think they'll develop into a strong program and at least be a mid tier team that could make occasional pushes toward the top. Kind of like UNI but more athletic and potentially better.

Evansville should be a strong mid level team as long as Marty is there. I see them struggling some this season but they have some nice young talent. Not sure they'll ever be an NCAA team, but strength in the middle and bottom of the conference is what helps the top teams get in and get better seeds.

I'm not sure what to think of Drake, MSU or SIU right now. Barry will make SIU better, but they have a long way to go. Drake has a new coach and I'm not sure what they'll do in the near future. MSU should be stronger the next couple of years, but I'm not sure how this program moves forward since as soon as they have any success, Lusk will leave and they'll start over with some unproven coach they can pay like an assistant.

The point is, I think we're still stronger than the likes of the WCC. Outside of the Zags, BYU and SMC, the WCC sucks. Adding Pacific may help a little. As a whole, we have more strength in the middle and bottom of the conference than they do and are at least competitive at the top.

With all of that said, I still dream of being in the MWC, but the MVC still has the potential to compete with the top 8 or so conferences.

[Rlh04d]

With all of that said, I still dream of being in the MWC, but the MVC still has the potential to compete with the top 8 or so conferences.

I hate remaining in the MVC ... but a couple years ago WSU and Creighton were both down and the MVC was still a top 10 conference. And we certainly didn't have a team as good as WSU is going to be. I wouldn't be surprised if we fall out of the top 10 next year, but I don't think we're going to be in that bad of a situation.

[fastbow]

I'm not quite so negative on the MVC. Yes, I'd love to be in a stronger conference, but lets look at more than just this coming season.

Lots of words

With all of that said, I still dream of being in the MWC, but the MVC still has the potential to compete with the top 8 or so conferences.

I just don't see it, Sub.

How long has Bradley been "moving in the right direction?" Seems like year-in, year-out we've been expecting Bradley to become a front runner, and year-in, year-out, they've found new ways to disappoint. Especially with all these legal wranglings, I just don't see Bradley with enough long-term stability. ISUb has had so many chances in the past few years to prove they're something special, but each time, they find some way to be lackluster. UNI is a cheapskate program, and they seem content to luck into a marginally successful team every few years.

Yeah, UNI is a top-100 type, but top-100 types don't build elite conferences. A cadre of top-50 types do. Who in the Valley besides us is positioned to do this year-in, year-out? Which fanbase is prepared to pay for the expenses of building an elite program? Maybe Loyola will surprise us with some big-city attention and money, but I just don't see it. The Valley is a bunch of poorer relations who are content to sit around and stare at dusty banners from the 70s and 80s, and unless we want to keep "shocking the world" as a nine-seed, having to grind through a #1 seed every year, we NEED to beat the rest of the Valley like rented mules.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love a strong Valley. I just don't see it happening in the foreseeable future. So, if we want the perks of being a big boy, if we want the headlines on ESPN, the deals with Nike, and the national presence and respect, we must beat our poorer brothers like they stole something, at least for the next few years until they either shape up, or we get lucky and ship out.

[GoShockers89]

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[SubGod22]

Ford has only been there a couple of years. I don't see how anything Les did or didn't do has any effect on what Ford is doing. He's upgraded talent already and has a track record of success at his previous job. I don't see any reason not to believe that they'll keep improving. They also have one of the better supported programs outside of us in the MVC. Support and money is there when they show they're committed to being a winner. Hell, they're in much better shape than we were a decade ago and we turned it around.

I could see us, Bradley and ISU being Top 50 teams in another year or two together. THAT is where UNI being a Top 100 team comes into play. I see them, ISUb and and UE being in that range with their current staffs with potential on some years to make an at large push. That would give the MVC 6 in the top 100 and 3 in the top 50. Loyola is a wild card for a few years but I could see them with their new commitment to sports getting in there as well within 3 to 5 years.

MSU and SIU and DU are what they are but they'll get better. The MVC has refocused on the scheduling mandate and that will keep everything moving in the right direction. But those three I don't have a ton of faith in long-term. MSU won't commit to paying a coach enough to hang around so they'll be up and down. SIU will move forward, but it'll be a process. They're in bad shape and practically broke. Drake..... I don't know about Drake.

I see the potential to be just fine. Are we going to compete with the MWC, ACC, B1G as a conference? Hell no. But we can, as a conference, put a solid product out there and be just fine. I know you're young and probably don't remember the Decade of Darkness that was WSU and the struggles prior to it, but we were in far worse shape from outside observers than the likes of BU, ISU and others look now. All it takes is the right coach and administration and plan to move things in the right direction. I'm amazed at how many people either forget about where we were at one point or think that we're so special that nobody could ever do what we did and turn it around. If I had to pick one school that could do it in the MVC, it'd be Bradley

[Rlh04d]

I think spending is a pretty good barometer of who gives a **** in the MVC. Based on that, there are a handful of programs like Bradley that at least want to get better. But schools like ISUb, Drake, Evansville, SIU, MSU, etc. spend truly embarrassing amounts on their coaches/programs and will have a downward trajectory over the long term (with occasional lucky spikes of success).

Definitely agreed on the money issue. Bradley will be good soon, and Loyola will eventually get there, because they are clearly interested in spending the money at the moment on their facilities at least.

Long term, the programs that spend the most money will be the best, relative to other conference members. They'll hire the best coaches and have the best position to recruit from.

[60Shock]

Too many if's and hopes, and maybe's. I just don't see the Valley being anything better than the number 9th or 10th ranked conference in the country, at the very best, over the next 5-10 years.

So, apparently we are stuck in this dead-end conference until our BB program becomes so dominate that we can no longer be denied.

And what will that take? Perhaps making the NCAA tournament five more years in a row and frequently advancing past the 1st and 2nd rounds?

Certainly something more than dominating the powerfull MVC conference.

[shock]

With 3 consecutive ncaa championships I don't see how Marshall can/will be denied anything

[shock10]

With 3 consecutive ncaa championships I don't see how Marshall can/will be denied anything

WHAT??? Just 1 for a start please.

[Shockerman]

It is AAC or bust for us. Another Deep tourney run and it will be a done deal.

[UofMemphis]

I'm not quite so negative on the MVC. Yes, I'd love to be in a stronger conference, but lets look at more than just this coming season.

Geno Ford has Bradley moving in the right direction and I truly believe that they'll be a player in another year or two and he'll keep building that program stronger. He's been quoted as saying that 3G and Wichita is the model he's using to build BU. I think most of us have been waiting for the Toasters to reemerge as one of the top teams and being that they can focus on basketball, it could very well happen. You can see what's going on there and I think they could probably pay Geno enough to keep him from bolting for just any old job.

Jake at UNI may never have a consistently dominant type program, or ever be dominant, but they should be pretty consistently solid as long as he's there and he's not going to bolt for more than a couple of jobs in the upper midwest. They should be a pretty consistent Top100 RPI type.

I like Lansing at ISUb, but I'm not sure what to think of them long term. As long as he's there, I think they'll be pretty solid, but I do wonder how they'll be when caveman is gone. I also wonder how long they'll keep Lansing there. Without him, I'm not sold on the Trees.

I know a lot of people here don't like ISU or Muller, but he's a young coach that's learning and like Ford, I believe he's using WSU as the blueprint for how to build that program. He's a passionate young coach and I think in a lot of ways is probably like 3G, especially when 3G was younger. He's already brought in a lot of talent at ISU but will need a few years to put it all together. They'll struggle this year, but I think they'll make strong improvements next season and beyond and we'll see them competing with us and Bradley at the top of the MVC.

I'm not going to throw Loyola under the bus right now either. They need a few years but Moser has a nice young team with what seems like a fair amount of talent. I think they'll develop into a strong program and at least be a mid tier team that could make occasional pushes toward the top. Kind of like UNI but more athletic and potentially better.

Evansville should be a strong mid level team as long as Marty is there. I see them struggling some this season but they have some nice young talent. Not sure they'll ever be an NCAA team, but strength in the middle and bottom of the conference is what helps the top teams get in and get better seeds.

I'm not sure what to think of Drake, MSU or SIU right now. Barry will make SIU better, but they have a long way to go. Drake has a new coach and I'm not sure what they'll do in the near future. MSU should be stronger the next couple of years, but I'm not sure how this program moves forward since as soon as they have any success, Lusk will leave and they'll start over with some unproven coach they can pay like an assistant.

The point is, I think we're still stronger than the likes of the WCC. Outside of the Zags, BYU and SMC, the WCC sucks. Adding Pacific may help a little. As a whole, we have more strength in the middle and bottom of the conference than they do and are at least competitive at the top.

With all of that said, I still dream of being in the MWC, but the MVC still has the potential to compete with the top 8 or so conferences.

I don't see how you can say the MVC is better than the WCC...having Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, and Pacific gives them a better top half of the conference...and saying "our bottom teams are better than yours" isn't saying much.

Going up against ACC, B1G, AAC, Big East, Big 12, Pac 12, MWC, SEC, A-10, WCC, CUSA...I don't see how the MVC could hope to crack the top 10 without Creighton.

[Dave Stalwart]

I don't see how you can say the MVC is better than the WCC...having Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, and Pacific gives them a better top half of the conference...and saying "our bottom teams are better than yours" isn't saying much.

Going up against ACC, B1G, AAC, Big East, Big 12, Pac 12, MWC, SEC, A-10, WCC, CUSA...I don't see how the MVC could hope to crack the top 10 without Creighton.

Fair enough. This is one of those posts that needs to be remembered just in case :)

[ShockerFever]

Did somebody really just drop Pacific as a selling point for a conference?

[UofMemphis]

I don't know too much about Pacific...but I believe they have 4 NCAAs, and 2 CIT tourneys the past 9 seasons...good enough to get them an invite to the WCC...they can really flourish there and challenge Gonzaga, BYU, and St Mary's.