Trump

[shocka khan]

And once a person has an ID with a picture and moves to another state, unless that state requires more ID such as a birth certificate, the ID can be used to get new IDs in their new state and be able to vote there.

I believe that if something does not make sense it probably is not true.

Having said that, if a person comes here illegally to work and improve their life (for a job), why would they quit their job to pull up stakes, go to another state and get another job in to obtain an ID which would allow them to vote?

Seems like you're trying to tell me most illegals are here to vote and influence our elections, I think they are here for economic reasons. I doubt most of them want to engage in further illegal activity (unless they belong to one of the cartels in Mexico) because they want to stay here, be productive and not run the risk of being caught and deported for doing something which is not related to the reason they are here.

In fact, that's why I think most of them generally obey the law. If they get caught doing something stupid, they go home. I will agree that there is a small population of the illegals who either don't learn or can't control themselves, but they are not near the numbers some have quoted here.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[shockmonster]

I believe that if something does not make sense it probably is not true.

Having said that, if a person comes here illegally to work and improve their life (for a job), why would they quit their job to pull up stakes, go to another state and get another job in to obtain an ID which would allow them to vote?

Seems like you're trying to tell me most illegals are here to vote and influence our elections, I think they are here for economic reasons. I doubt most of them want to engage in further illegal activity (unless they belong to one of the cartels in Mexico) because they want to stay here, be productive and not run the risk of being caught and deported for doing something which is not related to the reason they are here.

In fact, that's why I think most of them generally obey the law. If they get caught doing something stupid, they go home. I will agree that there is a small population of the illegals who either don't learn or can't control themselves, but they are not near the numbers some have quoted here.

Tell me I'm wrong.

You are changing my statements so I will summarize them which are quite moderate, I think.

First of all, I'm not a big Kobach fan and disagree with him on many issues (I'm thankful we have many other good Republican candidates for Governor in Kansas as he is probably on the bottom for me right now). However, with voter registrations, he is on point regarding the need for an investigation. While our states run their own election process, their is a huge need for them to communicate on who is registered, who has voted, etc. With Russia meddling, and these other issues, the integrity of our elections hang in the balance.

Second of all, I stated that common sense tells us there is a problem with state processes, voter registration, and voting. We just don't know how large of a problem there is. Thus, the need to investigate and communicate with each other that I mentioned above.

Third-The way that California, Oregon, Washington, and New York run their state governments, and their sanctuary actions, I have a feeling that illegals voting is rampant. Other states may unwittingly be allowing it to happen as well with the issues of voters moving from state to state.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

if a person comes here illegally to work and improve their life (for a job), why would they quit their job to pull up stakes, go to another state and get another job in to obtain an ID which would allow them to vote?

Whoa. Where did that come from? No need to assume they are moving *in order* to vote. What about the much simpler, and much more common case, where people move *for any other normal reason*?

If you have facts to dispute whether it is possible to get an ID in another state based on already having a California ID, please present them. I'm not sure why you are taking this into conspiracy theory territory when there are much simpler scenarios to explore.

[ShockCrazy]

You are changing my statements so I will summarize them which are quite moderate, I think.

First of all, I'm not a big Kobach fan and disagree with him on many issues (I'm thankful we have many other good Republican candidates for Governor in Kansas as he is probably on the bottom for me right now). However, with voter registrations, he is on point regarding the need for an investigation. While our states run their own election process, their is a huge need for them to communicate on who is registered, who has voted, etc. With Russia meddling, and these other issues, the integrity of our elections hang in the balance.

Second of all, I stated that common sense tells us there is a problem with state processes, voter registration, and voting. We just don't know how large of a problem there is. Thus, the need to investigate and communicate with each other that I mentioned above.

Third-The way that California, and New York run their state governments, and their sanctuary actions, I have a feeling that illegals voting is rampant. Other states may unwittingly be allowing it to happen as well with the issues of voters moving from state to state.

I'm kinda curious as to what the scenario is that leads to voting illegally even without having voter IDs required. Are illegals showing up at polls and somehow coming up with a name of a registered voter in a district who either is dead/moved AND hasn't voted yet? It really seems like a really inconsistent strategy and frequently implausible even with derelict voter rolls. Just fundamentally thinking about the logistics of voting illegally makes it seem like a stretch, that leads me to believe it likely isn't all that rampant. So then if we are going down the route of them actually registering themselves illegally, that also seems a bit of a stretch and an unnecessary inconvenience. I mean to what end? Risk getting caught and deported just in order to vote in an election in which your vote may or may not have significant impact?

[shocka khan]

You are changing my statements so I will summarize them which are quite moderate, I think.

First of all, I'm not a big Kobach fan and disagree with him on many issues (I'm thankful we have many other good Republican candidates for Governor in Kansas as he is probably on the bottom for me right now). However, with voter registrations, he is on point regarding the need for an investigation. While our states run their own election process, their is a huge need for them to communicate on who is registered, who has voted, etc. With Russia meddling, and these other issues, the integrity of our elections hang in the balance.

Second of all, I stated that common sense tells us there is a problem with state processes, voter registration, and voting. We just don't know how large of a problem there is. Thus, the need to investigate and communicate with each other that I mentioned above.

Third-The way that California, Oregon, Washington, and New York run their state governments, and their sanctuary actions, I have a feeling that illegals voting is rampant. Other states may unwittingly be allowing it to happen as well with the issues of voters moving from state to state.

I agree with most of your statements.
1. I believe voters ought to present ID to confirm their eligibility to vote. Having said that, I believe states requiring voter ID must take additional steps when implementing to make sure everyone who needs an ID can access it, which means it will cost them extra money.
2. I appreciate your honesty on the Russia situation. There are others commenters on this thread who have posted (on other threads) they think the whole Russia thing is a big joke. It isn't. Our president ought to quit lying about this. It's not fake news.

Slightly off topic, someone (probably the Russians) tried to hack Wolf Creek:

http://www.wibw.com/content/news/Report-Wolf-Creek-nuclear-plant-targeted-by-hackers-433001083.html

I suspect the reason they were unsuccessful was the servers running the nuclear plant were in a separate enclave (or had no network connection) to the business side of the house. Still and all, it is further evidence we have foreign governments probing everywhere in our critical infrastructure for soft spots.

3. We will have to agree to disagree about Cali, NY et. al., as I don't have the same opinion of those states that you have. And I don't think illegals come here to vote (unless they are incredibly stupid). I'm not saying it might not happen, I'm just saying I would be surprised if there were more than a handful (hundredths of a percent) or even less.

I also have a huge problem with Kobach asking for personally identifiable information being transmitted to a website in the manner in which I understand it was to be transmitted and stored. If a company did this with your data, their legal exposure would be huge.

Just more evidence he's not a really smart guy, as if I needed it.

[shocka khan]

Whoa. Where did that come from? No need to assume they are moving *in order* to vote. What about the much simpler, and much more common case, where people move *for any other normal reason*?

If you have facts to dispute whether it is possible to get an ID in another state based on already having a California ID, please present them. I'm not sure why you are taking this into conspiracy theory territory when there are much simpler scenarios to explore.

Your over-analyzing just proved my point. People don't move much (I'm getting ready to move, for the first time in 20 years). People tend to want to lay down roots and stay somewhere, so your statement also indirectly supports my point in that the number of people voting illegally in this manner are very small.

[shocka khan]

nm

[shocka khan]

The same 2016 change (AB-60) also automatically registers you to vote when you renew your DL. Over 800,000 illegals were registered to vote using this process prior to the 2016 Presidential election.

Your statement is not correct, I have linked to Snopes, they explain it better than I do. Not only that, your numbers are not correct, either, according to Snopes it was 605,000, not 800,000.

http://www.snopes.com/california-motor-voter-act/

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Your over-analyzing just proved my point. People don't move much (I'm getting ready to move, for the first time in 20 years). People tend to want to lay down roots and stay somewhere, so your statement also indirectly supports my point in that the number of people voting illegally in this manner are very small.

Studies calculated 3.5 million people moved from California to other states between 2010-2015. Saying that not enough people move for this to be a possible issue is just bizarre.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/01/18/numbers-bust-the-myth-theres-no-great-exodus-from-california/

Khan, you used to post decent material. Now, you are almost exclusively a troll. What happened to you?

[ShockCrazy]

Studies calculated 3.5 million people moved from California to other states between 2010-2015. Saying that not enough people move for this to be a possible issue is just bizarre.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/01/18/numbers-bust-the-myth-theres-no-great-exodus-from-california/

Khan, you used to post decent material. Now, you are almost exclusively a troll. What happened to you?

I mean your own numbers kinda show he's not exactly wrong. That's less than 600,000 people per year... Which is around 1.5% of the population of California. So 3 out of 200 people move a year, that doesn't seem like a lot to me. In raw numbers it seems like a lot but context matters. Even the article you linked is about no mass exodus. So then we break down into illegals of the population... Roughly 6%, so we are looking at roughly 6% of 600,000 which is 36,000 people. Then you start accounting for if they have a license, and then conversion rate of them trying and getting licenses in other states and well, we are looking at an incredibly small number in the grand scheme of things.

[shockfan89_]

Your statement is not correct, I have linked to Snopes, they explain it better than I do. Not only that, your numbers are not correct, either, according to Snopes it was 605,000, not 800,000.
http://www.snopes.com/california-motor-voter-act/

My statement is 100% correct. If you would have read the Snopes article (which by the way is a very left-leaning site), you would have seen that the 605,000 was 2015. If anything the 800,000 number is probably low. I have heard some estimates as high as 1.5 million prior to the Nov 2016 election.

Second, the Snopes article never says illegals can't vote, people are asked if they want to opt-out of auto registration. If they don't opt-out, they are registered. If you read the entire AB-1461 it appears it was written for the purpose of allowing illegals to vote.

2268. If a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote pursuant to this chapter in the absence of a violation by that person of Section 18100, that person’s registration shall be presumed to have been effected with official authorization and not the fault of that person.

2269. If a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote pursuant to this chapter and votes or attempts to vote in an election held after the effective date of the person’s registration, that person shall be presumed to have acted with official authorization and shall not be guilty of fraudulently voting or attempting to vote pursuant to Section 18560, unless that person willfully votes or attempts to vote knowing that he or she is not entitled to vote.

Here are a few other statements on the topic.

There are many advocacy groups that want voter registration to be simpler. The Brennan Center for Justice wants automatic voter registration laws to be expanded across the country. The law, which was passed in California, Oregon, Vermont, West Virginia, Connecticut and Alaska, means eligible citizens who interact with government agencies are registered to vote unless they decline to do so. Government agencies must transfer voter-registration information to election officials.

Even John Podesta, former chairman of the 2016 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, acknowledged in a leaked email that driver’s licenses do provide a loophole “On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a driver’s license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections,” Podesta wrote in a February 2015 email leaked by Wikileaks.

If this is all above board, let Kobach investigate it and provide him with voter registration logs. If he finds nothing, then it will be settled once and for all. All of the deflecting and stone-walling makes it seem like there is more to hide.

[Kung Wu]

Democrats are pandering to illegal aliens -- there is no dispute about that. But it's not ultimately to get illegal aliens to vote. It's because they want their children (who are born here) to vote.

It does seems likely that because of the environment that Obama created regarding this issue, a much larger percent of illegal aliens voted than expected (I cannot prove this, and actually don't care at this point whether it's true since it didn't affect the outcome of the election).

Hispanics accounted for over 50% of the population growth between 2000 and 2014. So that strategy will pay off for the Democrats, if they can continue to own the hispanic vote. However, the dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.

[ShockCrazy]

My statement is 100% correct. If you would have read the Snopes article (which by the way is a very left-leaning site), you would have seen that the 605,000 was 2015. If anything the 800,000 number is probably low. I have heard some estimates as high as 1.5 million prior to the Nov 2016 election.

Second, the Snopes article never says illegals can't vote, people are asked if they want to opt-out of auto registration. If they don't opt-out, they are registered. If you read the entire AB-60 it appears it was written for the purpose of allowing illegals to vote.

Here are a few statements on the topic.

There are many advocacy groups that want voter registration to be simpler. The Brennan Center for Justice wants automatic voter registration laws to be expanded across the country. The law, which was passed in California, Oregon, Vermont, West Virginia, Connecticut and Alaska, means eligible citizens who interact with government agencies are registered to vote unless they decline to do so. Government agencies must transfer voter-registration information to election officials.

Even John Podesta, former chairman of the 2016 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, acknowledged in a leaked email that driver’s licenses do provide a loophole “On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a driver’s license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in federal elections,” Podesta wrote in a February 2015 email leaked by Wikileaks.

If this is all above board, let Kobach investigate it and provide him with voter registration logs. If he finds nothing, then it will be settled once and for all. All of the deflecting and stone-walling makes it seem like there is more to hide.

You vastly underestimate how voter registration works. Just because a registration request is sent to the Secretary of States office, doesn't mean it is automatically accepted. Also your estimation would imply that over half of illegals received drivers licenses, which would be a higher conversion rate of people receiving drivers' license than the general populace does... Seems unlikely. EDIT: Error in the math, general populace conversion is around 65% and your supposed illegal conversion would be 60%, still seems unlikely.

[shocka khan]

Democrats are pandering to illegal aliens -- there is no dispute about that. But it's not ultimately to get illegal aliens to vote. It's because they want their children (who are born here) to vote.

It does seems likely that because of the environment that Obama created regarding this issue, a much larger percent of illegal aliens voted than expected (I cannot prove this, and actually don't care at this point whether it's true since it didn't affect the outcome of the election).

Hispanics accounted for over 50% of the population growth between 2000 and 2014. So that strategy will pay off for the Democrats, if they can continue to own the hispanic vote. However, the dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.

Democrats want to expand the voter pool (which potentially confers the right to vote to people who are not qualified), republicans want to shrink it (which potentially disenfranchises legal voters).

I totally agree that the result did not affect the outcome of the election. I fully believe HRC won the popular vote and Trump is pushing this for all the wrong reasons with all the wrong people. I think a lot of people additionally distrust Trump because he has a history of being dishonest. Therefore, given the method, the people involved, the guy pushing it (who appears to have an issue because he lost the popular vote), I think the whole situation stinks.

This is why election commissions need to be transparent and apolitical, why the committees who draw congressional districts need to be transparent and apolitical as well.

If we really need to do this, why can't congress establish a bipartisan national commission and remove the politics out of it. I'd be all for that, especially if it involved analyzing how we can best protect the anonymity of voters and the security over the voting systems so all Americans can have confidence in the results.

By the way, Kung, you'd be surprised how conservative many Hispanics really are. Our Governor Abbott is married to a Latina, for instance. Trump's problem is that he insulted the entire group with his statements leading up to the election. Even though many of them are hard-working and conservative, they definitely don't like him or the statements he made.

[shocka khan]

If this is all above board, let Kobach investigate it and provide him with voter registration logs. If he finds nothing, then it will be settled once and for all. All of the deflecting and stone-walling makes it seem like there is more to hide.

Even though I voted for Trump, I don't believe a racist partisan hack like Chris Kobach has the rights to look at my voter registration, party affiliation or voting record.

Be careful what you wish for, if a democrat gets elected, this same process could be used against both you and your party.