NFL 2022

[WuDrWu]

Beyond awesome! Neurological activity is a fantastic sign. He's not even close to being out of the woods yet, he's still critical, but comments yesterday about moving in a positive direction and hopeful sure seem to be bearing fruit today.

Don't even try to tell me there isn't power in prayer.


Perhaps in some way this can be some kind of rallying cause for a country desperately in need of coming together.

[pinstripers]

There is really no way to describe the feelings when some one you love is slowly coming back to you.

[ShockerPrez]

I would say the fact that he asked if they won the game is a tremendously good sign. I am surprised that he is still intubated while conscious. I always thought that was rare. But maybe the act of intubating requires unconciousness, not necessarily staying as such.

But good signs.

[pinstripers]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

[SubGod22]

Reports are that the NFL is leaning towards not resuming the game.

At that point, the issue is how do they deal with the seeding. Straight win percentage would seem to favor the Chiefs.

But there's at least some talk about if there's a conference championship game where this game not being played impacts the finish, that they might try playing it at a neutral site. This would seem to come into play if the AFC championship game were Chiefs vs Bills or Bills vs Bengals. A Bengals win would I believe given them the edge on the 2 seed, but I could be wrong. A Bengals win would have given the Chiefs the 1 seed. This is also all dependent upon everyone winning their Week 18 games as I believe they're all generally expected to do.

I'm not sure how you do a neutral site game on short notice like this. Game to be played in Detroit if one of the above scenarios takes place?

I'm not sure there's a "fair" way to do this if the game isn't finished. Not finishing the game on Tuesday or Wednesday pretty much guaranteed it wouldn't be finished without removing the bye week from at least the AFC.

I think I saw reports that a decision would be officially made before the Chiefs/Raiders game on Saturday on how everything will play out. I know it benefits the Chiefs, but I think they should just go to straight win percentage and play things out that way. It's not ideal, but I don't think the NFL really wants a possible short notice neutral site game with little atmosphere. The Bills benefit if/when they face the Bengals and the Chiefs benefit if they face the Bills. Not ideal, but it's the simplest route and honestly makes the most sense.

[WstateU]

Reports are that the NFL is leaning towards not resuming the game.

At that point, the issue is how do they deal with the seeding. Straight win percentage would seem to favor the Chiefs.

But there's at least some talk about if there's a conference championship game where this game not being played impacts the finish, that they might try playing it at a neutral site. This would seem to come into play if the AFC championship game were Chiefs vs Bills or Bills vs Bengals. A Bengals win would I believe given them the edge on the 2 seed, but I could be wrong. A Bengals win would have given the Chiefs the 1 seed. This is also all dependent upon everyone winning their Week 18 games as I believe they're all generally expected to do.

I'm not sure how you do a neutral site game on short notice like this. Game to be played in Detroit if one of the above scenarios takes place?

I'm not sure there's a "fair" way to do this if the game isn't finished. Not finishing the game on Tuesday or Wednesday pretty much guaranteed it wouldn't be finished without removing the bye week from at least the AFC.

I think I saw reports that a decision would be officially made before the Chiefs/Raiders game on Saturday on how everything will play out. I know it benefits the Chiefs, but I think they should just go to straight win percentage and play things out that way. It's not ideal, but I don't think the NFL really wants a possible short notice neutral site game with little atmosphere. The Bills benefit if/when they face the Bengals and the Chiefs benefit if they face the Bills. Not ideal, but it's the simplest route and honestly makes the most sense.

Bengals - Bills reportedly declared no-contest, which means Cincinnati wins AFC North

Bengals - Bills reportedly declared no-contest, which means Cincinnati wins AFC North (msn.com)

[Kung Wu]

Reports are that the NFL is leaning towards not resuming the game.

At that point, the issue is how do they deal with the seeding. Straight win percentage would seem to favor the Chiefs.

I'm not sure how you do a neutral site game on short notice like this. Game to be played in Detroit if one of the above scenarios takes place?

I'm not sure there's a "fair" way to do this if the game isn't finished. Not finishing the game on Tuesday or Wednesday pretty much guaranteed it wouldn't be finished without removing the bye week from at least the AFC.

For me it's easy. Closed game, no fans, score is Bengals 7 - Bills 3, and it goes straight to overtime, with the Bills deciding if they want the ball first or not. That way players aren't taxed for upcoming matches (which wouldn't be fair), and there's a guaranteed winner. Over fairly quickly to preserve players, and teams are given points they earned during the match. Fair all around.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Either way, the Chiefs should not be penalized for the game not being able to be played. It sucks, but that is the only way to handle it. If the game can't be played then they go by overall win %. Bills fans will b!tch about winning the head to head game but the season isn't just one game.

[Shockm]

Just reported this morning, that Hamlin, this morning was face timing his teammates. I never heard it said, but it sounded like the tube is out, and he was talking. Has anybody else heard that?

[Shockm]

I also heard 3rd hand (from a radio sports program where a MD reported it) how rare this (I forget what Fev called it)situation where the chest is struck, at the exact moment that the heart is "compressing" is so rare, it happens only 30 times a year, and has never happened in football. It actually has happened during other sports competitions like Soccer, Lacrosse, and even in a car accident where the steering wheel crashes into a driver's chest.

I will not call it a coincidence, because I personally don't believe in coincidences. The Doctors in charge of Demar Hamlin's care, said they felt a "powerful presence or force" that was directed toward Demar.

[SubGod22]

30 is the number I've seen reported as well elsewhere. I've mostly heard of this in baseball, usually youth baseball where a pitcher has been struck in the chest. I think it's even happened to a coach a time or two standing at first or third base. Guessing it's less in football due to the padding around the heart that the other sports don't have.

But it's also something I remember hearing about when I was a child.

[Kung Wu]

I also heard 3rd hand (from a radio sports program where a MD reported it) how rare this (I forget what Fev called it)situation where the chest is struck, at the exact moment that the heart is "compressing" is so rare, it happens only 30 times a year, and has never happened in football. It actually has happened during other sports competitions like Soccer, Lacrosse, and even in a car accident where the steering wheel crashes into a driver's chest.

I will not call it a coincidence, because I personally don't believe in coincidences. The Doctors in charge of Demar Hamlin's care, said they felt a "powerful presence or force" that was directed toward Demar.

50 years since a player in the NFL dropped x 22,000 tackles per year is about 1,000,000 tackles since the last NFL player dropped. It feels a little off that in all of those tackles across five decades someone didn't get tackled while their heart was in the same specific state to trigger this type of event. There's got to be more to it than only "timing", unless the one in a million timing event occurs at the microsecond scale. I feel there's additional missing variable(s) that needs to be discovered.

For example: It occurs due to the timing plus angle of impact (hitting specific spot on heart), or timing plus duration of impact, or timing plus impact force, or some combination of these types of things.

My tiny brain says there just has to be more to it than just a simple one microsecond moment when an impact to the chest is perfectly safe 999,999 times, but fatal once.

I guess the point of my comment is, if they can figure out the second variable, then they can save a ton of male athletes by protecting them from the other variable (e.g. if it's the force of impact, it could be as simple as requiring manufacturers to add additional padding in front of the heart).

[SubGod22]

I don't think most tackles involve direct force over the heart. A lot of shoulder to stomach and shoulder to shoulder. Most are tackles from the side or at the legs. I don't know how to even come close to accurately figuring out how many tackles involve a head or shoulder to the immediate heart area. Then you add in that there is padding on the chest, but I believe the pads end right around that area at the bottom of the breast plate and force/tackle at the bottom, or at an angle that essentially gets under the bottom of the shoulder pads is where the threat of this happening mostly lies. Not that the right impact into the shoulder pad area above the heart couldn't be enough to trigger such a response.

Like has been said, we know this a rare but not unheard of condition/experience.

I also don't think there's a ton that can be done to protect athletes from this is the record shows it's not something that is likely to happen often. Not that they might not be able to find a way to offer slightly more protection in some way with design/padding of the pads, but they also have to be functional. I don't think they can be made to cover more area, if this is about a hit that was maybe at the bottom of the pads as players still need to ability to move and bend and that would cause problems. If there's a way to strengthen or reinforce the pads in that area then maybe, but unless things have changed that's also the area where shoulder pads are tied and tightened so I'm not sure how to deal with that, but I'm also not an engineer of any sort.

In conclusion, it happened. It's not likely to happen to anyone else anytime soon. Doesn't mean it can't, but it also shouldn't be a major fear for anyone playing as we have decades of data showing that it's not something that is common and was a fluke. Scary ass fluke, but fluke nonetheless.

[WuDrWu]

Just reported this morning, that Hamlin, this morning was face timing his teammates. I never heard it said, but it sounded like the tube is out, and he was talking. Has anybody else heard that?

He was extubated earlier today, yes.

The GoFundMe donations just topped $8 million.

If he wasn't just placed on IR, it might not surprise me to see him active for Sunday's game. (Not really, but still.....miraculous, if still a long way back).

[Shockm]

50 years since a player in the NFL dropped x 22,000 tackles per year is about 1,000,000 tackles since the last NFL player dropped. It feels a little off that in all of those tackles across five decades someone didn't get tackled while their heart was in the same specific state to trigger this type of event. There's got to be more to it than only "timing", unless the one in a million timing event occurs at the microsecond scale. I feel there's additional missing variable(s) that needs to be discovered.

For example: It occurs due to the timing plus angle of impact (hitting specific spot on heart), or timing plus duration of impact, or timing plus impact force, or some combination of these types of things.

My tiny brain says there just has to be more to it than just a simple one microsecond moment when an impact to the chest is perfectly safe 999,999 times, but fatal once.

I guess the point of my comment is, if they can figure out the second variable, then they can save a ton of male athletes by protecting them from the other variable (e.g. if it's the force of impact, it could be as simple as requiring manufacturers to add additional padding in front of the heart).

Could be. I thought it interesting that (according to reports) it happens more in LaCrosse when the hard ball hits the chest. I didn't check on baseball, but some said it happens there too. I guess, that baseball players and LaCrosse players could wear chest padding? Soccer sometimes produces head injuries. Maybe Soccer players should wear helmets too. All possible solutions.