2016 Bracketology

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Yeah, but THEM???? While I think Self is a good-very good coach, he is not a 'great' coach, and his teams MORE often than not play under their 'ability'(i.e. read "recruiting numbers")...THAT ALONE should warrant a 3/4....

The top 25 should have nothing to do with playing over/under ability level. If you have an NBA roster but go 0-20, you should be unranked. If you have a bunch of 5'-6", 300lb blind kids who somehow hit 90% of their full court shots and go 20-0, I'm fine with them being #1.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/ just updated... The majority of the brackets now include WSU's loss to ISU, yet WSU is still an 8 seed.

So, to summarize, WSU just suffered a bad loss and they are still in the top 25 of both polls, still a single digit seed according to Lunardi, and JH4P, and the larger bracket matrix. The Shox are fine. No need to worry.

[fansince80s]

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/ just updated... The majority of the brackets now include WSU's loss to ISU, yet WSU is still an 8 seed.

So, to summarize, WSU just suffered a bad loss and they are still in the top 25 of both polls, still a single digit seed according to Lunardi, and JH4P, and the larger bracket matrix. The Shox are fine. No need to worry.

Or as Bruce would say " we received a mulligan "

[XManCometh]

Yeah, but THEM???? While I think Self is a good-very good coach, he is not a 'great' coach, and his teams MORE often than not play under their 'ability'(i.e. read "recruiting numbers")...THAT ALONE should warrant a 3/4....

Well, he's won 11 straight Big 12 titles, been to five Elite 8s (one at freaking Tulsa), won a national title and got runner up to Anthony Davis when his best player was a limited in ability Thomas Robinson. I'd say that's a pretty great resume for a coach. His main problem is that recently he doesn't recruit kids that have a killer instinct like Ron or FVV. He recruits passive guys with no fire half of the time like Andrew Wiggins, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden. Sure, you could say Bill has probably regressed as a coach the last few years, but he's still a great coach. Is KU a #1 seed? No, not presently. But if they run the table the rest of the way in the Big 12 and get to the title game in their tournament I could easily see them jumping to a 1 seed. Not that a 1 seed guarantees you anything. The committee could easily put someone like Duke as the 8 seed in their region.

If anyone is an overrated "good but not great" coach it's Jim Boeheim. Guy has advanced past the Sweet 16 just 5 times in almost 40 years as a coach. Self has surpassed that in nearly half the time. Plus Boeheim is a cheater.

You can hate KU all you want, but to say Self is just a "good" coach is laughably biased against KU.

Also, WSU fans out of anyone should know how laughable recruiting ranks are. Just look at FVV and Baker.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

His main problem is that recently he doesn't recruit kids that have a killer instinct like Ron or FVV. He recruits passive guys with no fire half of the time like Andrew Wiggins, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden.

If Perry Ellis' personality is too "passive" and he "lacks a killer instinct", then Tekele Cotton didn't have it either.

Both are/were high quality players in both talent and attitude. I want both on my team, period.

[XManCometh]

If Perry Ellis' personality is too "passive" and he "lacks a killer instinct", then Tekele Cotton didn't have it either.

Both are/were high quality players in both talent and attitude. I want both on my team, period.

Oh no doubt I want them on my team. If I was making a team of Kansas/WSU players in the last 5 years both would easily make the cut. But Perry isn't a leader, that's what I was getting at. He's a beta dog, not an alpha dog, and can disappear when things get tough on him. Tekele was a leader.

Bill recruits kids with that beta dog personality. None of them really want to take over the game even if they have the ability, like Wiggins. Wiggins had all the talent I've seen in a player in college since forever, but he didn't want to take over games very often. Same with Perry. Tekele never had to do anything like that because he had FVV, Ron and Cleanthony doing all the heavy lifting. But he was a leader and was going 100% 100% of the time. Most of these KU kids just seem to slink off into the shadows when things start going downhill.

I'm not ripping Perry as a player. I think he's great. I'm just saying his personality on the court is lacking sometimes.

[asiseeit]

1. I believe we will win out
2. Six seed in the west
3. Our first two opponents will complain about being matched up with us
4. Top 32 with 36% beyond arc in first game and Sweet 16 with 45% in second game

[Play Angry]

1. I believe we will win out
2. Six seed in the west
3. Our first two opponents will complain about being matched up with us
4. Top 32 with 36% beyond arc in first game and Sweet 16 with 45% in second game

A+ for specificity. I endorse all of the above.

[WSUwatcher]

1. I believe we will win out
2. Six seed in the west
3. Our first two opponents will complain about being matched up with us
4. Top 32 with 36% beyond arc in first game and Sweet 16 with 45% in second game

Well, no one can accuse you of being vague or overly general.

Hope you're right all the way down the line, and I think there's an excellent chance you will be on at least #1 and #3. If you end up calling all four -- especially #4, which is crystal ball stuff -- you'll be the new Oracle of Shockernet.

[OregonShocker]

Yeah, but THEM???? While I think Self is a good-very good coach, he is not a 'great' coach, and his teams MORE often than not play under their 'ability'(i.e. read "recruiting numbers")...THAT ALONE should warrant a 3/4....

Outside of just KU-bashing, I don't know how you can say Self is not a great coach. He is clearly in the top 10, if not 5, of current coaches (and Marshall is, too, IMO). If my kid wanted to play and didn't want to go to WSU, outside of disowning him, I'd want him to play for Self. Just sayin'

[OregonShocker]

Obviously, wins and losses matter. The question is always how much do you adjust for a 1 point loss vs a 1 point win. We all know that the difference in level of performance between the two is small, but by nature, sports is about wins and losses, so we have to adjust by more than the 2 point difference suggests. The question is simply how to find a balance between pure W/L's and pure scoring margin.

Best explanation of "quality loss" to date.

[pogo]

Well, no one can accuse you of being vague or overly general.

Hope you're right all the way down the line, and I think there's an excellent chance you will be on at least #1 and #3. If you end up calling all four -- especially #4, which is crystal ball stuff -- you'll be the new Oracle of Shockernet.

No but someone will accuse him of wearing rose and yellow colored glasses.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

1. I believe we will win out
2. Six seed in the west
3. Our first two opponents will complain about being matched up with us
4. Top 32 with 36% beyond arc in first game and Sweet 16 with 45% in second game

Regarding #3, I'd be willing to bet our first four opponents will complain about being matched up with us.

Nobody is going to be pleased to be in "Wichita State's region" this year.

[molly jabali]

Well, he's won 11 straight Big 12 titles, been to five Elite 8s (one at freaking Tulsa), won a national title and got runner up to Anthony Davis when his best player was a limited in ability Thomas Robinson. I'd say that's a pretty great resume for a coach. His main problem is that recently he doesn't recruit kids that have a killer instinct like Ron or FVV. He recruits passive guys with no fire half of the time like Andrew Wiggins, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden. Sure, you could say Bill has probably regressed as a coach the last few years, but he's still a great coach. Is KU a #1 seed? No, not presently. But if they run the table the rest of the way in the Big 12 and get to the title game in their tournament I could easily see them jumping to a 1 seed. Not that a 1 seed guarantees you anything. The committee could easily put someone like Duke as the 8 seed in their region.

If anyone is an overrated "good but not great" coach it's Jim Boeheim. Guy has advanced past the Sweet 16 just 5 times in almost 40 years as a coach. Self has surpassed that in nearly half the time. Plus Boeheim is a cheater.

You can hate KU all you want, but to say Self is just a "good" coach is laughably biased against KU.

Also, WSU fans out of anyone should know how laughable recruiting ranks are. Just look at FVV and Baker.

Missing my point to a degree...don't hate at all....and totally agree about Boeheim...but Self is a guy who PICKS pretty much his recruits to a great tradition, and then loses to....Okie State by 19....and THEN is not made to suffer for that...Yeah, THAT'S what I meant to say....:)

[OregonShocker]

Well, he's won 11 straight Big 12 titles, been to five Elite 8s (one at freaking Tulsa), won a national title and got runner up to Anthony Davis when his best player was a limited in ability Thomas Robinson. I'd say that's a pretty great resume for a coach. His main problem is that recently he doesn't recruit kids that have a killer instinct like Ron or FVV. He recruits passive guys with no fire half of the time like Andrew Wiggins, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden. Sure, you could say Bill has probably regressed as a coach the last few years, but he's still a great coach. Is KU a #1 seed? No, not presently. But if they run the table the rest of the way in the Big 12 and get to the title game in their tournament I could easily see them jumping to a 1 seed. Not that a 1 seed guarantees you anything. The committee could easily put someone like Duke as the 8 seed in their region.

If anyone is an overrated "good but not great" coach it's Jim Boeheim. Guy has advanced past the Sweet 16 just 5 times in almost 40 years as a coach. Self has surpassed that in nearly half the time. Plus Boeheim is a cheater.

You can hate KU all you want, but to say Self is just a "good" coach is laughably biased against KU.

Also, WSU fans out of anyone should know how laughable recruiting ranks are. Just look at FVV and Baker.

One of Self's problems, which we don't have (yet?), is trying to mix "one and done" players with committed, long term players who look for program success over personal success. Honestly, I'd fear this mix if we went to a P5 conference/Big 12. Marshall has a knack for finding committed players; maybe we don't WANT to play "pick me!" for the one and done's! Let others have them if they aren't willing to promote team success over personal gain.