Official: Wichita State vs Seton Hall Game Thread

[Topshock]

I look at this as a learning experience for coach. I said continuing to stick with Wessel when our offense starts to fade is a mistake. When our offense starts to fade, Wessel needs to be on the bench.

It would be best for the entire team. Wessel is an pffensive liability and didn't produce near enough intangibles to counter his minuses today.

This has been rather obvious since Orlando.

Furthermore, why on three occasions do our best 3 point shooters pass up wide open 3 point shots by passing to Wessel who is less than 25% for the season.

[ShockTalk]

Was not able to watch the game today, but I have looked through this thread, reviewed the play-by-play, and the box score.

An overtime loss on the road to a good team (SH is a good team) is tough to take. One more point in regulation would have been a win. Usually when a team's top players who are seniors score 19 and 16 and almost half the team's points one would look at the other starters and bench for the problem in the offense. That may not be the problem today. I will watch a replay of the game, if available, but, on paper, there may be a different story.

First, many on here were critical of our FTs. Yes, Grady was 0-2, but the rest of the team was 10-12. Hardly a problem. Next, the refs. There was a huge difference in the number of FTs for SH and they also shot over their average. I'll have to watch to get a better feel on refs, however, we dominated with our 3s. We out shot and out scored them 42-18 from the arc. Normally, that kind of shooting from the 3 equals a win. We also out rebounded them by 4, 15-10 on the offensive boards which are good for extra points. So what happen?

21 TOs, 11 by FVV and Baker. 11-14 TOs is probably not too bad, which is where the team would have been had FVV and Baker been closer to their average. The rest of the team was mediocre, but FVV and Baker flat had a bad day. Also, we only shot 35% inside the arc, so our bigs must have had a bad day? Nope, Morris and BWam were 4-5, and add Grady and Nurger for a 5-8 total. FVV was 2-12, the rest of the team a respectable 10-22, .454.

We all know Fred and Ron have won us a whole pot load of games, it just happened to be a day where both were very sub-par in either TOs, 2 point shots (or type of 2 point shots), or both. 18 shots by Fred is too many for a pass first PG (when the team is shooting well), going 2-12 inside the arc with 6 TOs. Some of this lays with the coaching staff as well. We had too many good leads at many different points of the game to let this one get away. A normal day by Fred, Ron and Coach and this would have been a double digit win despite the refs.

[Singeril]

The FT stat never includes the difference from missing the front end of a one and one.

[Ricardo del Rio]

One more thang.

What happened to the new rule enforcement of "touch me, foul me"?

It still stings.

[Bluzrover]

That was a bummer of a loss, no doubt about it. But I'd much rather lose by 4 in overtime, on the road, to a potential top 25 team than lose at home.

It's pretty clear the week of preparation was beneficial to Seton Hall and give credit to Willard, he had his guys prepped to the point they knew what to do when Fred tried to penetrate, knew his tendency to ride out the shot clock, and did a great job of giving him no where to go with the ball.

Too many sloppy passes on our part, by just about everybody, including Fred, which was very uncharacteristic. Say what you will about the officiating but that's, unfortunately, part of the game. I think it was called much tighter than last weekend's game and we sure seemed to get the brunt of the calls although I think we got away with a few ourselves. It all boiled down to execution and we just didn't get it done in the second half.

Glad to see Anton back on the court. Wow, really happy for the young man. Not sure if he played tentatively or not but I thought it was so good to see him playing again after that scare he got in Orlando.

We now REALLY have our work cut out for us. I'd say there's really little room for error at this point. Not sure we're going to be as stout on the road in the Valley as years past but that's pretty much what it's going to take. I just hope Seton Hall, Utah, UNLV and Tulsa continue to win and prove that we really did have a tough non-conference sked.

[Ricardo del Rio]

TO + PF

WSU: 21+31 = 52

SHU: 17 + 18 + 35

Mi Dios. Muy feo. Neuve re'cord.

[ShoxRoxMySox]

On the bright side: Nobody got hurt, lid is off the bucket for Conner, Grady played and... Yeah that's about it, but I'll take it.

[Bluzrover]

We all know Fred and Ron have won us a whole pot load of games, it just happened to be a day where both were very sub-par in either TOs, 2 point shots (or type of 2 point shots), or both. 18 shots by Fred is too many for a pass first PG (when the team is shooting well), going 2-12 inside the arc with 6 TOs. Some of this lays with the coaching staff as well. We had too many good leads at many different points of the game to let this one get away. A normal day by Fred, Ron and Coach and this would have been a double digit win despite the refs.

As someone else pointed out, it seemed a lot of the guys passed up open 3s. I think ZB passed up at least two and I know for certain CF did as well. I think it's obvious why he chose to pass up open 3s but once he got those FTs, he started to shoot again and we like the results. I thought maybe Fred would pass out of the lane when he drove but to be fair, there was never more than 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock by the time he made those final drives.

Film study will show that Seton Hall played some really tough defense but there were openings our guys failed to take advantage of. It's going to be a tough couple of days of practice.

[shock]

That pretty much covers it.....solid work.

[forevershockerfan]

TO + PF

WSU: 21+31 = 52

SHU: 17 + 18 + 35



Mi Dios. Muy feo. Neuve re'cord.

Speaking of fouls, FVV fouled out in 34-minutes played, Brown in 18 M.P. and Grady in 16. Baker led our team in minutes played with 40 followed by Wessel with 38. Baker had 7 assists and 5 turnovers. Grady had 6 rebounds and MM had 5 along with 2 steals.

[fansince80s]

On the bright side: Nobody got hurt, lid is off the bucket for Conner, Grady played and... Yeah that's about it, but I'll take it.

Agree

[newshock1234]

Every time fvv would drive the basket and get hammered but gets no call then on the other end tgey would call some ticky tack BS call

[Stickboy46]

I'm sorry, people want to be politically correct and not blame the refs but a 21 free throws, 16 point at the foul line difference is the primary reason we lost. Both teams played equally physical, one got away with it, one didn't. You can't win many games with that gap.

[ShockerFever]

I don't believe you were at the game. Clown suit me please, with evidence.

How about I just clown you on here and tell you to go FUK yourself.

[SHUFAN82]

I have said this a bunch of times and I will say it again, I have great respect for your fans and program. But when I come on here and see people taking credit away from Seton Hall and saying, "I wonder how many games Seton Hall will win with that officiating?" that starts to take respect away from some of the fans. Most of you guys are able to admit the fact that both teams played hard and Seton Hall deserved the win. You know the officials made calls but there are other missed opportunities you guys had. The biggest thing is turning the ball over, 21 turnovers is alot! The refs did not turn the ball over for you guys! Maybe with less turnovers you guys would have had more opportunities to score more points, as well as you guys shot from beyond the arc if you made a few more three pointers than you missed you would have won. There are have to be at least some games at Koch where you guys have close games and refs make calls your way. If you guys won today there would have been Seton Hall fans complaining about bad calls as well, it is a short sighted biased argument to blame it on the refs. We will win many more games, we are young and talented, once again good luck to the rest of the season, I would really like to play you guys every year it is fun!