Official: Wichita State vs Seton Hall Game Thread

[ShockTalk]

I am about to stir the pot or pour gasoline on the fire. I am not real busy.

I have two questions. If anyone can correctly answer both questions, then I will give a lifetime subscription for Creighton Now Magazine to the winner.

Question 1 - How many times has Evan been to the charity stripe this season?

Question 2 - How many points has Evan scored at the charity stripe this season?

No Google or similar allowed. No nothing allowed.

FOUL, FOUL!! :playful:

I posted that very fact of 0-1 this morning in another thread. I'm just now getting back to reading today's postings. Maybe you should read more before posting, RDR. :biggrin-new:

[Ashockalypse]

Fever, I always knew you were lacking in some intellect. The first refuge of a man who has no argument is name-calling. You're consistently doing that. Not to mention using a slur reserved for someone who is learning-disadvantaged. So who in your family has down's syndrome, Fever? Do you think they would be proud of you right now?

I had a nephew with Down's Syndrome. He was a cute, loveable kid born with Down's and a hole in his heart, which ultimately claimed his life after about 5 surgeries at 4 years old.

He was much braver and kinder than you are, Fever.

I think even you understand Fever's point. At any rate, get off Evan's ass you Ass!

[CBB_Fan]

Interesting ref calls:

1:31:39 - Foul on Frankamp. Both Frankamp and the offensive player have two hands on each other, then the offensive player jumps. It looks like #20 shoves Frankamp before jumping to clear space, but Frankcamp has his arms still around him.
1:33:34 - TO on Van Vleet. He is bodied by #31, pushing him out of bounds. Could have been blocking foul + 2 points. Basket waved off.
1:34:11 - Blocking foul on Brown. Defender is out of control, shoulder is down, initiates contact. But Brown did have one foot in the air. This is the worst call in basketball, I call it the ROB (reckless offensive bailout). As a team we average a low number of ROBs, probably near last in the NCAA.
1:37:12 - ROB on Kelly. 100% initiation of contact by offensive player. Kelly has hands completely vertical, offensive player is nearly horizontal running into him. Note that he was called for the same thing #31 did in 1:33:34, pushing offensive player out of bounds. But because Van Vleet was in control and #32 was not, #32 gets a ROB.
1:38:14 - Fred Van Vleet is hit while shooting. Refs are out of position and cannot see a damned thing. It was clearly enough contact for a foul. Clearly. If any official sees that play (defensive arm literally wrapped around Van Vleet) he shoots two. This was incompetence in their positioning.
1:39:19 - Just to be fair, this was a foul on McDuffie that was missed. He collided with the ball handler.
1:39:22 - Looks like Van Vleet got ball to me. Even though 0 swung the ball upwards, it doesn't look like Van Vleet his arm; instead it looks like he hit the ball as it was swung. This is iffy though, he might have clipped the guys face.
1:40:35 - Watch #35 push Grady down low. Watch the ref that should have seen it. He's shoved. Gets called for a foul for incidental contact he couldn't possibly see and Baker gets headbutted. We were the fouled at least twice on that play far harder than #32 was, and he's the one shooting FTs.

All in all we hit three 3PT shots and one 2 PT shot in OT, Seton Hall made one 2 PT shot, and they won by two possessions. We didn't deserve a ton of FTs, since we just passed the ball on the perimeter, but they got bailout calls many times and were allowed to push and shove us underneath to an extent that was not reciprocal.

I'm not goint to look at the last 30 minutes of the game, but I think you'd find much the same trend. In college basketball, the team that plays less under control gets the benefit of the whistle. The team that is more physical is called for less, the team that plays better defense is called for touch fouls. Happens every time we play Illinois State, happened today, happened when we lost to UK. As a team, we do a bad job of shoving on defense and really don't fall down enough on offense.

[Blackmag]

For what its worth the crew that called the Seton Hall game was a Big East crew. Hate to ever use the excuse that we lost because of officiating but it did seem a bit one-sided. I too watched the game over and Fred was getting bumped and wasn't getting the call, problem is he didn't adjust. But there were some very ticky-tack calls against us that were mind boggling. We didn't finish well, like normal, they turned up the heat on defense and we didn't take care of the ball. I still think we are a good team, injuries have hurt our team from a consitency point, and really having to depend on very young players a bit too early in the season. We have everyone back except Landry ( which sucks ) but I think we will see us play more like we know we can barring a major injury to any key player, knock on wood. We are the best 5-5 team in the country, and I think the talent is too good not to make a run...

[Ricardo del Rio]

Zone.

[shockmonster]

I'm not as smart as the coach, but I'm smarter than you. I predicted when we had the issues in Orlando that Wessel would cost us a game. He did.

If coach keeps playing him 38 minutes a game and allowing him to jack up 3's at the end in a close one, we will lose another one.

You don't have to be smart to see that coach has some sort of an infatuation for Evan. Call it a blind spot. Sort of like a parent that loves their kid so much they can't see the whole picture. He loves Evan's hustle but doesn't recognize the fact that he does very little for us when he's out on the floor. When we play well, it works great. When we play bad at the end like we did on Saturday it will cost us games.

I think the problem here is that coach is so infatuated with Evan he's not seeing that he is a liability at the end of a close game. Especially when he's shooting. That has more to do with emotion and less to do with intelligence.

So while I agree that Coach is smarter than me, he's making decisions right now based on loyalty and emotion rather than on what can get us a W.

What's your excuse?

Coach can decide how much to play him. After all, he sees them every day in practice. But you seem not to see a lot of the nuances of basketball and fixate on points. Defense is highly important too. There is a lot to Evans game that goes unnoticed to the casual basketball observer. Evan did not lose this game.

[Stickboy46]

For what its worth the crew that called the Seton Hall game was a Big East crew. Hate to ever use the excuse that we lost because of officiating but it did seem a bit one-sided. I too watched the game over and Fred was getting bumped and wasn't getting the call, problem is he didn't adjust. But there were some very ticky-tack calls against us that were mind boggling. We didn't finish well, like normal, they turned up the heat on defense and we didn't take care of the ball. I still think we are a good team, injuries have hurt our team from a consitency point, and really having to depend on very young players a bit too early in the season. We have everyone back except Landry ( which sucks ) but I think we will see us play more like we know we can barring a major injury to any key player, knock on wood. We are the best 5-5 team in the country, and I think the talent is too good not to make a run...

Several posters on the Seton Hall board even admitted they got the vast majority of the 50/50 calls and the whistle in general went their way. I think that is a pretty telling sign that it was pretty one-sided.

[WSUwatcher]

Didn't they figure out in football some time ago that non-conference games should be officiated by a crew from the visitor's conference, or at the very least (presumably in cases where travel logistics create a problem or cost issue) by a crew from a neutral conference?

Not that Marshall and Mrs. Coach would be all that excited seeing Valley refs even more often than they already do, but at least that way they'd be dealing with the devil they know.

Edit: an odd note that someone else may already have commented on -- Seton Hall (no doubt helped by the double bonus) actually shot, and of course made, more FTs in OT than they did in either the first or second half of regulation time. That's a busy five minutes at the line.

[pie n eye]

The loss is still a bummer but I see one silver lining. If we had won that game I'm sure I would have to read at least three puke inducing comments like this, "we're going to be ranked in the top 25 Monday but we are not a top 25 team." At least I don't have to clean up that mess.

[ShockerEngineer]

I think even you understand Fever's point. At any rate, get off Evan's ass you Ass!

My only issue with anyone trying to blame Evan is that I don't think it's fair to do so. I'd bet he also wishes he could hit more shots, be taller, faster, etc, as much as any of us does. It's not his fault if no one else has done enough to take his playing time.

[WSUwatcher]

The loss is still a bummer but I see one silver lining. If we had won that game I'm sure I would have to read at least three puke inducing comments like this, "we're going to be ranked in the top 25 Monday but we are not a top 25 team." At least I don't have to clean up that mess.

Gee, and I thought I was a sunshine pumper. That's the Most Tarnished Silver Lining of All Time (TMTSLOAT).