Official: Wichita State vs Seton Hall Game Thread

[Eric]

I have said this a bunch of times and I will say it again, I have great respect for your fans and program. But when I come on here and see people taking credit away from Seton Hall and saying...

Then don't come on here. Save yourself and your fragile self esteem the anguish. It's easy.

[Shocker85]

I have said this a bunch of times and I will say it again, I have great respect for your fans and program. But when I come on here and see people taking credit away from Seton Hall and saying, "I wonder how many games Seton Hall will win with that officiating?" that starts to take respect away from some of the fans. Most of you guys are able to admit the fact that both teams played hard and Seton Hall deserved the win. You know the officials made calls but there are other missed opportunities you guys had. The biggest thing is turning the ball over, 21 turnovers is alot! The refs did not turn the ball over for you guys! Maybe with less turnovers you guys would have had more opportunities to score more points, as well as you guys shot from beyond the arc if you made a few more three pointers than you missed you would have won. There are have to be at least some games at Koch where you guys have close games and refs make calls your way. If you guys won today there would have been Seton Hall fans complaining about bad calls as well, it is a short sighted biased argument to blame it on the refs. We will win many more games, we are young and talented, once again good luck to the rest of the season, I would really like to play you guys every year it is fun!

Seriously?

Ok, here goes ... Seton Hall outscored the Shockers by six-frickin'-teen from the free throw line today.

That's your game summary.

And, one more thing, why are you over here looking for gratification? You aren't going to get any from us. Don't you think it's a bit arrogant to tell us how to behave or how the Shocks might have won the game. Find Tim Brando, he'll butter you up.

[SB Shock]

But when I come on here and see people taking credit away from Seton Hall and saying, "I wonder how many games Seton Hall will win with that officiating?" that starts to take respect away from some of the fans.

And we care how? Our board, our conversations.

The biggest thing is turning the ball over, 21 turnovers is alot! The refs did not turn the ball over for you guys!

Sure they did - with the bogus charging calls on Fred. Those go as turnovers.

we are young and talented,

Well it remains to be seen if you are that talented, You forgot to add full of themselves. Personally I don't think Seton Hall that good - and that is why this game stings some.

[vancedave56]

I thought the officiating was very poor and inconsistent, especially in the 2nd half. I also thought we played as a bunch of individuals in the 2nd half - not as a team. There will be some valley teams handle us if this does not change.

[Topshock]

I thought the officiating was very poor and inconsistent, especially in the 2nd half. I also thought we played as a bunch of individuals in the 2nd half - not as a team. There will be some valley teams handle us if this does not change.

Baker and Van Vleet have to start trusting their teammates.

[Dave Stalwart]

Perspective.

We went 2-1 in a critical stretch of games and beat the most notable team in that stretch massively. Utah just beat #7 Duke behind a combined 40 points and 22 rebounds from Poeltl and Kuzma. How did those guys do against us?

The loss was predictably the lone road game and it was by 4 in OT. Seton Hall will be ranked on Monday and so will Utah.

This was not a bad loss. The Shockers will likely enter MVC play at 7-5... Only 1 loss in the month of December. That's still a great trend if we take care of the next couple games.

Lastly, we got our star center back today way earlier than expected. He was rusty but he was back.

We have a good team and I'm not worried. Seton Hall got the win and it's now up to them to keep winning, which I believe they will. This was a rocky start to the season, but I am looking forward to what lies ahead.

[AZ Shocker]

If the hammy "ever" heals back to 100%....we only lose 1 more game this year. And that includes the month of April.

[Shocker-maniac]

Was not able to watch the game today, but I have looked through this thread, reviewed the play-by-play, and the box score.

An overtime loss on the road to a good team (SH is a good team) is tough to take. One more point in regulation would have been a win. Usually when a team's top players who are seniors score 19 and 16 and almost half the team's points one would look at the other starters and bench for the problem in the offense. That may not be the problem today. I will watch a replay of the game, if available, but, on paper, there may be a different story.

First, many on here were critical of our FTs. Yes, Grady was 0-2, but the rest of the team was 10-12. Hardly a problem. Next, the refs. There was a huge difference in the number of FTs for SH and they also shot over their average. I'll have to watch to get a better feel on refs, however, we dominated with our 3s. We out shot and out scored them 42-18 from the arc. Normally, that kind of shooting from the 3 equals a win. We also out rebounded them by 4, 15-10 on the offensive boards which are good for extra points. So what happen?

21 TOs, 11 by FVV and Baker. 11-14 TOs is probably not too bad, which is where the team would have been had FVV and Baker been closer to their average. The rest of the team was mediocre, but FVV and Baker flat had a bad day. Also, we only shot 35% inside the arc, so our bigs must have had a bad day? Nope, Morris and BWam were 4-5, and add Grady and Nurger for a 5-8 total. FVV was 2-12, the rest of the team a respectable 10-22, .454.

We all know Fred and Ron have won us a whole pot load of games, it just happened to be a day where both were very sub-par in either TOs, 2 point shots (or type of 2 point shots), or both. 18 shots by Fred is too many for a pass first PG (when the team is shooting well), going 2-12 inside the arc with 6 TOs. Some of this lays with the coaching staff as well. We had too many good leads at many different points of the game to let this one get away. A normal day by Fred, Ron and Coach and this would have been a double digit win despite the refs.

I think this is very good analysis. Pretty much spot on.

[pie n eye]

Baker and Van Vleet have to start trusting their teammates.

I could be very wrong but I agree with you here. We looked great in the first half when we snapped the ball around and shared. I didn't see those two things as much in the second half and we didn't look good. Marshall said it on the post game, the ball stuck with one or two guys too much in the second half.

[top20shock]

I don't think it's a trust issue. I think this team is a month behind in their development because of all the chaos from the injuries. They need to rally as a team and they will be better than last years team by March.

[SHUFAN82]

The game was not 60 seconds old and I told Senora Rio that Whitehead was way too full of himself. The game was not one minute old and already he was playing "look at me" with the crowd.

I admire the Pirates because they did not fold up their tent. They could have. Your crowd was great.

I knew it was over when two events happened. First, the Shockers were fouling machines to begin the second half. Second, the Pirates began to attack the rim unmercifully at the beginning of the second half and the Shockers looked helpless.

It was a nice win for the Pirates. I hope you make the big dance.

I on the other hand thought it was over with 2:30 lrft ehen you guys extended it to 7, youre transfer from Kansas can really shoot and will hit some big time shots this year.

[ShockRef]

Musings from the man cave

Shaq scores 6 points in the 1st 3 minutes... and doesn't score again. He only managed one more shot the entire game... and it was a bunny he clanked.
Rauno needs to go back and petition the NCAA to get his R-shirt back. He isn't ready for Emporia State, let alone D-1 competition. The guy obviously needs to go on a diet consisting of nothing but red meat and high carbs.
Bush, never mind.
Nice to see Anton today. Just smiled at the sight of him running up and down the court.
I'm sure he has had major medical evaluation but I cringed anytime there was physical contact with him. Seeing him on the floor in Fla is still haunting.

Comments about Ron and Fred not trusting their mates is spot on, at least today. Just not used to seeing Fred try to force so many drives when it clearly was not there.

CF is clearly a catch and shoot, but his lack of strength hurt today. KB needs to duplicate the same program for him that worked for Tekele.

Long way to go. Blow Nevada and NM State away and then get after The Valley (which will not be nearly as easy as some on here think).

That is all.

[Blackmag]

this was a tough loss for sure, but to be a good team you have to have a short memory. The team will right the ship, too much talent. I agree with some of the posts on many of the different areas of the game that cost us the game. I don't agree with the notion that Ron and Fred lack trust in there teamates, they are play makers and they had bad second halfs in the same game. They got carried away with the penetrating the lane trying to draw fouls that didn't get called or didn't happen. Fred had 3 charging calls, and Anton had one late in the game that was a phantom call, even on the replay, I quess the ref was calling him for hooking the defensive player but he really didn't touch the guy, very tick tack. We missed a couple chip shots underneath late, their bank 3. Big big disparity in fts. and still a close loss in OT. Gotta get behind these guys Tuesday and get the train a rolling. As Ku would say , its a quality loss...

[choida]

Frankamp should shoot when he has a chance...he sure the heck aint in the game for his defense...do what 3G3M brought you in to do...Evan Wessell can hit threes...but I think Baker and Frankamp and Van Vleet are the ones in the clutch that should be shooting them

[Stickboy46]

I have said this a bunch of times and I will say it again, I have great respect for your fans and program. But when I come on here and see people taking credit away from Seton Hall and saying, "I wonder how many games Seton Hall will win with that officiating?" that starts to take respect away from some of the fans. Most of you guys are able to admit the fact that both teams played hard and Seton Hall deserved the win. You know the officials made calls but there are other missed opportunities you guys had. The biggest thing is turning the ball over, 21 turnovers is alot! The refs did not turn the ball over for you guys! Maybe with less turnovers you guys would have had more opportunities to score more points, as well as you guys shot from beyond the arc if you made a few more three pointers than you missed you would have won. There are have to be at least some games at Koch where you guys have close games and refs make calls your way. If you guys won today there would have been Seton Hall fans complaining about bad calls as well, it is a short sighted biased argument to blame it on the refs. We will win many more games, we are young and talented, once again good luck to the rest of the season, I would really like to play you guys every year it is fun!

SHU did what they needed to in order to win. But to say that getting to shoot TWENTY ONE more free throws and making SIXTEEN more doesn't factor in to a 4 point OT win is dumb. It's a major reason you won. Not the only one, but there were multitude of calls that took points off of WSUs score and gave them to SHU.