2023 AfterShocks and TBT

[Kel Varnsen]

I don’t know how much or how little that WSU has persuaded 3G, but it is possible that the ball is in 3G’s court and that 3G wants to take his ball and go home.

Yeah, unfortunately, that’s also a possibility. Combine that with the separation agreement (which should be changed if possible - although that’s highly unlikely), and it’s a mortal lock that 3G won’t be there, as sad as it is.

[ShockerExpress]

If it's part of his separation agreement that he is not allowed on the campus, then it's time to make some new contractual agreements.


I don't believe the players on the F4 team have Marshall's back. I believe they gave everything they had, they would have run through a wall for him, and he made them better than they would have been without him, but that they tolerated, rather than enjoyed, the time they played for him. He made them better. They made him better.

I haven't seen Baker, VanVleet, or Early being involved in the program after they left WSU. Maybe it's just coincidental, but VanVleet seems to have had no involvement at WSIU until both Boatwright and Marshall were gone.

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Yes. Save me any blame on the current WSU admin for Marshall not coming back. I have a feeling it has more to do with what you said than anything from current Shocker athletics.

Ron and Fred singlehandedly could have saved his job and had his back - both were around for all the stuff 3G was alleged to do, and neither came to his defense.

Says a lot IMO.

Hardly even had a single nice thing to say about him. Most of his support came from players earlier in his tenure here.

Why would 3G want to come back to spend the weekend with them? It doesn't make any sense on his end.

[Kel Varnsen]

Ron and Fred singlehandedly could have saved his job and had his back - both were around for all the stuff 3G was alleged to do, and neither came to his defense.

I don't know about saved his job, but they sure could have been more gracious towards him than they were. Especially Fred.

[ShockerExpress]

I don't know about saved his job, but they sure could have been more gracious towards him than they were. Especially Fred.

Fair. I think any statement of defense, or certainly anything refuting the Shaq incident specifically, would have gone a long way toward his retention. Certainly would have made me feel a bit different about it.

It was basically crickets and Ron saying 3G was a hypocrite on that podcast.

[Shockm]

Most of us (no probably, all of us), don't know very many ( or any) specifics about these issues. Likely, there are only two people who do.

GM isn't a PR wizard (understatement), but one of the problems is that neither are the former players. Most are just "proud" people who don't want or know how to reach out. The sad thing is that at some point, there was likely a positive relationship between the "principles".

The best case scenario is that after a "cooling off" period, which has long since passed, someone should have reached out, and "hashed " these issues out in private. I doubt that happened. What has happened is that GM has "clammed up", and some of the guys have probably discussed it within their small group, and while most have publicly said Nothing, a couple have publicly said just enough to cause more questions. No one has been a "winner", and WSU is worse for it.

Hopefully, some day, someone will be a "true adult leader", and try to settle this issue.

[Ashockalypse]

This has bee n the biggest clusterf&$k and I largely blame Boatright. Nothing that Marshall did justified firing him. His critics have basically destroyed the entire era anyway. If you conflate Marshall with slave owners which some have done on here then you can’t really celebrate the era since it was all on the backs of the oppressed ha ha. I don’t know why Gregg would want to luv it up with guys that essentially betrayed him after he helped them to multimillion dollar careers. Too much reliance on 23 year old opinions.

[Stickboy46]

If it's part of his separation agreement that he is not allowed on the campus, then it's time to make some new contractual agreements.

That's a two way street. Opening or changing the agreement also opens up the possibility of a claim to the other 7 million that Marshall did not receive as part of the separation agreement. Marshall would have to agree to do more for the school (i.e. be allowed to show up for events like this) without making a claim to any of the remaining cash.

[WstateU]

This has bee n the biggest clusterf&$k and I largely blame Boatright. Nothing that Marshall did justified firing him. His critics have basically destroyed the entire era anyway. If you conflate Marshall with slave owners which some have done on here then you can’t really celebrate the era since it was all on the backs of the oppressed ha ha. I don’t know why Gregg would want to luv it up with guys that essentially betrayed him after he helped them to multimillion dollar careers. Too much reliance on 23 year old opinions.

In fairness, I've heard Fred on two occasions (Raptor player interviews) give coach Marshall credit for the development of his game (especially defense intensity)... paraphrasing, he said, "I played for a great college basketball coach".

[1972Shocker]

That's a two way street. Opening or changing the agreement also opens up the possibility of a claim to the other 7 million that Marshall did not receive as part of the separation agreement. Marshall would have to agree to do more for the school (i.e. be allowed to show up for events like this) without making a claim to any of the remaining cash.

I don't see that as a possiblity. Agreements get amended all the time in very narrow and specific ways and those amendments almost always include language that the original agreement remain in full force and effect with the exception of the provision or provisions addressed in the amendment.

I kind of doubt that his separation agreement in and of itself if there was a mutual desire to have him show up at the TBT Tournament recognition.

Has anyone heard whether or not he is attending the Armchair Strategies reunion and fundraiser at the MARK Arts Center on July 22nd? I would not think that the separation agreement would have any impact on that.

[Stickboy46]

I don't see that as a possiblity. Agreements get amended all the time in very narrow and specific ways and those amendments almost always include language that the original agreement remain in full force and effect with the exception of the provision or provisions addressed in the amendment.

I kind of doubt that his separation agreement in and of itself if there was a mutual desire to have him show up at the TBT Tournament recognition.

Has anyone heard whether or not he is attending the Armchair Strategies reunion and fundraiser at the MARK Arts Center on July 22nd? I would not think that the separation agreement would have any impact on that.

Any amendment requires agreement for both sides. Just saying WSU can't just amend it at all without 3Gs consent. If I was 3G's lawyer, I'd be asking for compensation for any amendment that leads towards his involvement with WSU in any way.

[1972Shocker]

Any amendment requires agreement for both sides. Just saying WSU can't just amend it at all without 3Gs consent. If I was 3G's lawyer, I'd be asking for compensation for any amendment that leads towards his involvement with WSU in any way.

Of course, an amendment requires both parties. That goes without saying. That's why I don't see 3G opening up the agreement as you outline as possible. If 3G's attorneys try to pull something like that WSU just says never mind and walks away. At that point any blame would fall solely on 3G. Of course, I don't know if WSU has any interest in making this happen either. If 3G proposes an amendment to allow him to attend and WSU shoots it down then the shoe is obviously on the other foot.

I think what WSU could do unilaterally, instead of amending the separation agreement, would be to issue a limited wavier of the specific provision prohibiting him from attending a specific event and deliver that to 3G. It would be up to him then whether or not he want to take advantage of the waiver. I have no idea if WSU has any desire to do that.

Nor do I know if he is attending the Armchair Strategies function that is off campus.

I am thinking the key to getting 3G to show up and one or both of these functions is the players from the Final Four team. I they really want 3G thrtr I think they could bring some pressure to bear on both sides to make it happen.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

IMO, neither gathering is a true celebration of the Final Four without Marshall, who was arguably the catalyst for the whole thing even being achieved. I wouldn't attend either one without him being a part of it.

[Stickboy46]

IMO, neither gathering is a true celebration of the Final Four without Marshall, who was arguably the catalyst for the whole thing even being achieved. I wouldn't attend either one without him being a part of it.

While i get the sentiment .... The players gave us multiple years of their life and frankly one of the best multi year runs in Shocker history. They deserve the fan appreciation even if the complications of Marshall prevent him from being there.

[Stickboy46]

Of course, an amendment requires both parties. That goes without saying. That's why I don't see 3G opening up the agreement as you outline as possible. If 3G's attorneys try to pull something like that WSU just says never mind and walks away. At that point any blame would fall solely on 3G. Of course, I don't know if WSU has any interest in making this happen either. If 3G proposes an amendment to allow him to attend and WSU shoots it down then the shoe is obviously on the other foot.

I think what WSU could do unilaterally, instead of amending the separation agreement, would be to issue a limited wavier of the specific provision prohibiting him from attending a specific event and deliver that to 3G. It would be up to him then whether or not he want to take advantage of the waiver. I have no idea if WSU has any desire to do that.

Nor do I know if he is attending the Armchair Strategies function that is off campus.

I am thinking the key to getting 3G to show up and one or both of these functions is the players from the Final Four team. I they really want 3G thrtr I think they could bring some pressure to bear on both sides to make it happen.

We are basically saying the same thing just different ways. Just have a feeling the legal tip toeing that would need to be done to get him there is probably more than either side wants to do

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

While i get the sentiment .... The players gave us multiple years of their life and frankly one of the best multi year runs in Shocker history. They deserve the fan appreciation even if the complications of Marshall prevent him from being there.

Agreed, but without Marshall it's not a complete celebration.