Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 213311-4.jpg
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • Originally posted by apkbaum View Post
      She just won’t stop. Shaq, come get your girl.
      The truth has come out ? Did I miss where the independent investigation was completed and released? It might end up being the truth but we can't come to that conclusion with only 1 side of the story.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

        The truth has come out ? Did I miss where the independent investigation was completed and released? It might end up being the truth but we can't come to that conclusion with only 1 side of the story.
        Hey Stick, if I'm looking it it right I only see a few who either liked or retweeted Hamilton's tweet. Zach, Malone, Ty Taylor, Shaq, and douchenozzle. Am I right?

        Comment


        • In the meantime, can that ***** be trespassed from university property?

          Comment




          • Interesting

            Comment


            • Preface - if you don’t like long posts or don’t like my writing or any other reason, skip this. It is long. But I like to think and write in detail, and this is a very interesting topic. For anyone who is more informed or better connected to the program, I would love corrections to my understanding. And at a minimum I would like to throw it out there as a conversation starter to hear people’s thoughts and opinions.

              Background to this - I have a former college teammate that is not only one of the best basketball minds and students/historians of the game I’ve ever encountered, but he played at a high level and had a son that played high level high school and AAU ball with a lot of high D1 recruits (including a player that was recruited by and played for Marshall), so he has a lot of experience from different angles. He is my go-to guy for any opinion on basketball because of it, and he asked me for my read on the situation.

              I have a lot of free time on my hands, so I wrote a lot:

              ——————-

              After reading most of the 60 page message board thread, here’s what seems to be developing as consensus facts gathered from the free for all taking place across various social media platforms between journalists, former players, boosters, fans, and other people formerly attached to the program. Buckle your seat belt! This is long! Glad I have a keyboard!


              1. Shaq Morris is the key figure on the record, and it seems to be believed (and more importantly not denied publicly by him even though he’s been very vocal on other matters) that he was paid $50K for the story. If I were him and I didn’t receive compensation from anybody I would be shouting it from the rooftops in all caps. But he’s not, that I know of. While Jeff ******* gave what I thought was a very credible answer about how major news outlets don’t pay for stories, I thought he was very careful to dance around not saying that Shaq wasn’t paid by someone else. The Wichita radio guy that interviewed him should have asked.

              2. The criticism is overwhelmingly skewed toward being from former players that did not succeed and/or transferred out. Shaq Morris was a starter, but was one of the very few players who never reached his potential (which was absolutely NBA, he’s currently in Japan which I believe is 3rd tier behind the top Spain/Greece European leagues) or got in good shape. Van Vleet even publicly shamed him on social media for skipping conditioning workouts with him.

              3. The criticism is overwhelmingly skewing toward being from younger players. Former players publicly backing Marshall overwhelmingly skew older. This says something to me.

              4. There is a female “sports psychologist” in the middle of this. According to people close to the program, she is (1) not actually a psychologist (2) is a nursing student (3) is a career student (4) got close to the program (5) realized that she could get close and stay close to players by being a sympathetic protective mommy (6) was either mentally imbalanced or just pissed off when players were told to stay away from her, and (7) decided to launch/assist an assault on Marshall as a result. I don’t care to lower myself further into it, but apparently she and Cleanthony Early are going at it on Facebook, with Cle telling her she doesn’t know what she’s talking about because he lived it and is backing Marshall, and she’s telling a former NBA player that was in practice every day that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and that “men think they know everything”. Red flag!

              5. I had forgotten this, but there is a basis for Jeff ******* having a personal vendetta against Marshall. As you may know and I think I’ve noted before, but the Wichita State coaching job has been regarded as one of the best 20-30 coaching jobs in the country for a very long time. I don’t have evidence, but I’ve heard many times over the years that Jim Valvano was going to take the job but found out he had cancer during the medical screening. Insiders know (and Marshall has referenced multiple times as well) that there are very few coaching jobs that can pay a coach $3.5M a year, put sellout 10K screaming fans in the arena for EVERY game including exhibitions/cupcakes, fly to every game and recruiting trip on private jets instead of commercial, and be not only the #1 priority above football but also be the ONLY thing anyone cares about because no one cares about football. In other words - for a pure basketball coach who loves the game and doesn’t care about the name brand, it’s a perfect job.

              But people look at the optics of “Wichita” and “Missouri Valley” and whatever simple optics and apply simple logic to attach a place in the hierarchy that is similar to Tulsa or Peoria/Bradley or wherever when it’s not even close. Basketball guys know it and have known it for years.

              But Dan Patrick doesn’t. So in 2013 during the Final Four run, he asked ******* “if he’s such a great coach why hasn’t he gotten a big time job by now?”. The actual answer should have been “Wichita is a big-time job but casual fans don’t know it, and Marshall is probably waiting for Indiana, Texas, or one of the other top 10 blue-blood major conference jobs to open up because that’s the only upward move for him - he’s guaranteed for life in Wichita and has no reason to leave because of the resources and support for the program is better than almost everywhere else not named Duke or Kentucky or Kansas.”

              What ******* actually answered was “I asked that very question and the answer I kept getting was that people in the business don’t like him very much”.

              Which may be true, may not be. His personality isn’t for everyone by all accounts. Nor could he succeed to the degree he has without that personality - to a much smaller degree I would say the same thing of myself. But what is definitely true is that in the months and years immediately preceding that, it is a known fact that NC State, Texas A&M, and UCLA all wanted him and he rejected all of them on the record for the resources/support reasons I said above (btw did you know that UCLA has to fly commercial to their games? Holy crap!)

              And those are just the ones we know about. Alabama threw the kitchen sink at him a couple years later and I really thought he was gone when reports surfaced about him on a jet in Tuscaloosa and meeting Nick Saban etc. I think he would have taken Texas, but fortunately that AD after DeLoss Dodds that everyone hated had a personality clash with him.

              Anyway, my point is that “in the business” at that time you would have had quite a few schools that (1) were certain that they were superior to Wichita and that they were simply going to write a check and give him the “step up” out of Wichita and the Missouri Valley Conference that they “knew” he would take and (2) were shocked/embarrassed/angry that they were spurned and perceived to be lower in the basketball hierarchy than Wichita. Texas A&M was the perfect example of this (in fact, Shaeff got out over his skis and tried to big time me, was embarrassed when they were rejected, and is still butthurt about it and it cracks me up). Basically same song different verse of rejecting a girl that thinks she’s an upgrade for you, but she talks **** about you when you disagree and don’t accept what she’s offering.

              So - Marshall is not the type of guy to ignore bullshit like that, especially when it can be used against him in recruiting or career options, and he does seem like the type of guy that would hit back. So my guess is that he damaged ******* in some way (and ******* by his own admission has bounced around a lot of places).

              Then when the opportunity came to investigate why Wichita State had so many transfers, ******* couldn’t resist reporting the negative. Then you have the other outlet that maybe/probably paid for the story.

              6. There is a developing consensus based on comments from former players that Shaq wasn’t happy with the story and that it misrepresented and/or omitted some stuff. And also many comments about “wait to hear the other side”. Cleanthony Early is one saying “I talked to Shaq and I was there, and none of you know what happened before” in regard to the “punch”

              7. I put quotation marks on “punch” because there seems to be some dispute about where it fell on the shove/punch/slap spectrum.

              8. I’ll send you another thing that I posted on the message board but I could totally see a plausible scenario where coach had been continually frustrated with Shaq being fat, untapped potential, lazy, and then when he made a lazy hard foul on a teammate that put him flat on his back with a potential season ending injury (which actually happened) coach just lost it at poor conditioning/motivation endangering a teammate and the team’s success and physically assaulted him in some way.

              I’m not defending it or saying it’s right because it’s not and can’t be allowed to happen, but I think we’ve all been in that place on the playground or in the gym where some a-hole who doesn’t belong on the court because of his conditioning or skill level makes his problem someone else’s problem by undercutting them or not being able to control his body, and the reaction of the mind is to think “that could have resulted in a injury of severity X and therefore that’s a threat and therefore rage is my reaction”.

              9. On the other hand, Shaq is on the record saying that Coach told him that as punishment he had to go to the other end of the court and roll around on the ground while the team practiced. Shaq refused and walked out of practice. I can come up with totally plausible defenses for Marshall on almost everything but it’s **** like that where I think “WTF man, really? So maybe this stuff is actually true about you?”

              10. The incident with the other student athlete in the parking lot is being ignored. Which is weird because it seemed like the worst/most significant thing to me.

              11. So the bottom line on all of the allegations that I find entertaining is that ******* seems to be panicking a little at how little coverage the story is getting. Plus he got rushed into releasing because another outlet found out and scooped him on it. He’s messaging “why are people talking about scheduling when a coach is hitting players” and not getting much response. My hypothesis is (1) basketball is a close-knit community, (2) his theory about Marshall not being widely liked and that he counted on being gasoline on the fire for people to pile on isn’t as true as he thought it was, (3) there’s a broad consensus among coaches and players that regular people/fans don’t understand how much “abuse” goes on in every coaching situation and how important that “abuse” is for success, and (4) every coach out there is side eyeing this thing, looking at our sick social media culture that loves “gotcha” and tearing people down and thinking “okay I never hit a kid, but if you’re going to contact every transfer out and kid that couldn’t earn playing time from me and ask them what the worst thing I ever said or did was... I don’t think I survive that”.

              12. Possible outcome 1: Nothing. The investigation by the university reveals “the other side of the story” that players are referring to. ******* is in deep **** career-wise and effectively done as no coach will ever trust him or go on the record again. A counter story is done and maybe even funded by a wealthy Marshall that exposes a calculated collusion between disgruntled former players/parents with the overwhelming common thread that they all (1) thought they were good enough to start at a high major D1 program, (2) couldn’t earn minutes, (3) didn’t end up being successful, and (4) were fueled by and close to a sports “psychologist” that shouldn’t have been around players or teams.

              13. Possible outcome 2: The investigation reveals significant mitigating circumstances, but there’s still a lot of truth and a couple of other non basketball players come forward. Sanctions. Anger management classes. Which I would pay thousands of dollars and agree to not watch basketball for 5 years if I was allowed to watch on a livestream. They could title it “Psychologist Teaches Coach How To Lose Basketball Games”.

              14. Possible outcome 3: Termination. The investigation reveals little to no mitigating circumstances, and that the altercation with the non basketball student athlete over the parking spot was as bad or worse than reported. Other non-basketball athletes come forward with stories of out of control/inappropriate interactions with coach.

              15. The big wrinkle and grey area here is that if the university EVER wants to get rid of Marshall without having to pay his buyout, this is the window of opportunity for termination with cause. I doubt the endowment is more than $250M, and Marshall’s buyout is in the $30M area (and rising). Not that their governance would allow them to tap that, but the money would have to come from somewhere.

              16. Finally - What do I want? I want there to be a shitload of background/context uncovered that basically proves that Marshall is hyper-intense and just loves the damn game of basketball and not that he’s borderline insane or a truly bad person. If that is the case I want a full national public show of support from the university for him in the wake of this. Like a big time show. And although I think it would be a bad look to actually follow through on it, I want a clear message to any journalists, former players, their parents, and attached “sports psychologists”/other persona non grata of

              “We have worked very hard to build a highly successful brand that is highly regarded within college basketball nationwide. You have damaged that brand. We can quantify that damage, and since this is America we can sue you. We’re not going to, but... don’t f*** with us any more, and we’re going to keep an eye on your social media accounts to make sure that you don’t.”

              I would also want a good solid shot across the Marshall bow of with a message of:

              “You’re a Hall of Fame coach and we want you to never work anywhere else. We want you to retire here whenever you want, hang banners, and attend the unveiling of your statue and the renaming of the court after you. HOWEVER, what we also want is for you to do what you have done your entire career and coached young people to do so effectively - acknowledge that mistakes were made and learn from them. This was too close of a call with optics that didn’t have to happen. We will give you whatever resources you need to ensure that it doesn’t happen again, but we need assurance from you that you won’t allow certain dynamics to create the possibility again.”

              I look forward to your questions and comments and insight based on your experience with your son, AAU, and high level D1 kids!

              Comment


              • Comment


                • Originally posted by wichshock65 View Post
                  Cool... I have 73,423 players that say it never happened. But wish to remain anonymous

                  Comment





                  • So Patty, when did RC claim others couldn’t “speak their truth?”

                    derrrrrr
                    Last edited by RajFaheen; October 12, 2020, 01:38 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Comment


                      • If he truly did it and you are out of the program obviously. Why does it hurt you to put your name out there?
                        Follow me on twitter: https://twitter.com/Shox_KCfan

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by newshock1234 View Post
                          If he truly did it and you are out of the program obviously. Why does it hurt you to put your name out there?
                          I agree with you in principle, but in practicality I think there’s a reality of a “snitching” stigma even if it is obvious that it was a bad situation. I know - as young man, but less now - I would have considered a teammate suspect if they had been part of a mutiny even if it appeared to be totally justified. I’m really interested in the opinions of guys who saw combat or who served in the military on this issue.

                          In other words, you’re putting information out there for people to disparage you with - e.g. all else equal, an exactly comparable player of the same skill level but never blew the whistle on a coach is probably going to be preferable to a future coach or employer.

                          I’m not a legal scholar and have never been to law school, but I would imagine that the 3x or whatever incentives to whistleblowers are based on this - not just to incentivize the reporting of waste that helps everybody, but also to compensate them for lost future opportunities.

                          Any lawyers out there that have an opinion?

                          Comment


                          • ******* trying awfully hard to make his investigation more credible. He just hates 3G. Plain and simple. He couldn’t give two craps about the players, merely means to an end.

                            Comment


                            • Do we know how long the St. Louis law firm has been engaged in the official investigation? Has there been any indication when this investigation might be done and a report made public?

                              Seems like these things usually take longer than many of us probably like but it is what it is. I suppose I prefer a thorough and complete investigation over a rushed investigation just to soothe my own impatience.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by newshock1234 View Post
                                If he truly did it and you are out of the program obviously. Why does it hurt you to put your name out there?
                                Some maybe out of the program but not all the way out of the community. You may still have opportunities to get money in Wichita and that opportunity may be in jeopardy if you go after one of the most powerful men in the city.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X