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  • Good afternoon Shocker fans. I've been lurking around here since it seemed likely that a WSU exit from the MVC was the only way that Valpo would potentially be getting an MVC invite. It's been very interesting reading. Although Valpo hasn't achieved at the same level as WSU our positions seem similar. We have both come to dominate conferences that are recently diminished due to Big East defections (Creighton and Butler) and the fall off of previously successful programs (Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Cleveland State, Milwaukee - among others). The weakening of our conferences has led to grumbling among fans, but we also both seem to lack options for moving to a new home. Certainly based on the talk around here WSU would already be gone if a viable offer had been made by the MWC or AAC. It appears that a lack of football is keeping you out of any conference that has the potential to be significantly better than where you are already at - and adding football (at least to this outsider) seems like a real challenge.

    Given the lack of existing options, several posters have speculated about creating a new conference. There are obviously huge challenges with this, the biggest being a lack of NCAA shares without a likely TV contract lucrative enough to make up for them. However unlikely, it may still be the most feasible option other than adding a couple additional members who can only marginally improve a conference that is retaining all its existing members. So with this in mind I set out to build the best possible conference that WSU could have any chance of pulling together. I eliminated all schools with FBS football, and all schools already in the Big East or A10. I also eliminated schools on the coasts (no Gonzaga or VCU). I then looked at the schools that were left and picked out the strongest 9 based on a four year cumulative average of ESPN's Basketball Power Index (a computer ranking similar to KenPom, Sagarin and others). A quick look suggested that although this conference would lack big "brand" names, it could still potentially be as strong as any league outside the Power 5 + BE. I pulled more data together on this group of schools and have compiled it into a PDF. You can view it at the link at the bottom of this post.

    What is clear is that if something like this is to be attempted, WSU is the only school with the money, clout and on-court success to take the lead and make it happen. What do you think?

    Detailed data on ten schools for a potential midwest and basketball-centric NCAA athletic conference.

    Comment


    • I'm confused that you only list Butler among meaningful defections and CSU and UWM as used-to-be-good programs. I would have thought surely that Loyola would have made at least one of those lists.

      le sigh.

      Comment


      • Loyola's departure, and replacement with Oakland has actually worked to slightly counter the Horizon League's downward trend.

        2016 BPI 2015 BPI 2014 BPI 2013 BPI 4 Yr. Avg.
        Oakland 65.6 50 47.1 45.8 52.125
        Loyola (CHI) 48.2 56.5 37.3 50.9 48.225
        I think you'd have to go all the way back to the early 80s to qualify Loyola as a "used-to-be-good-program." Rogers Park campus right on Lake Michigan is very scenic though.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by VALPOfan View Post
          Good afternoon Shocker fans. I've been lurking around here since it seemed likely that a WSU exit from the MVC was the only way that Valpo would potentially be getting an MVC invite. It's been very interesting reading. Although Valpo hasn't achieved at the same level as WSU our positions seem similar. We have both come to dominate conferences that are recently diminished due to Big East defections (Creighton and Butler) and the fall off of previously successful programs (Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Cleveland State, Milwaukee - among others). The weakening of our conferences has led to grumbling among fans, but we also both seem to lack options for moving to a new home. Certainly based on the talk around here WSU would already be gone if a viable offer had been made by the MWC or AAC. It appears that a lack of football is keeping you out of any conference that has the potential to be significantly better than where you are already at - and adding football (at least to this outsider) seems like a real challenge.

          Given the lack of existing options, several posters have speculated about creating a new conference. There are obviously huge challenges with this, the biggest being a lack of NCAA shares without a likely TV contract lucrative enough to make up for them. However unlikely, it may still be the most feasible option other than adding a couple additional members who can only marginally improve a conference that is retaining all its existing members. So with this in mind I set out to build the best possible conference that WSU could have any chance of pulling together. I eliminated all schools with FBS football, and all schools already in the Big East or A10. I also eliminated schools on the coasts (no Gonzaga or VCU). I then looked at the schools that were left and picked out the strongest 9 based on a four year cumulative average of ESPN's Basketball Power Index (a computer ranking similar to KenPom, Sagarin and others). A quick look suggested that although this conference would lack big "brand" names, it could still potentially be as strong as any league outside the Power 5 + BE. I pulled more data together on this group of schools and have compiled it into a PDF. You can view it at the link at the bottom of this post.

          What is clear is that if something like this is to be attempted, WSU is the only school with the money, clout and on-court success to take the lead and make it happen. What do you think?

          https://www.scribd.com/doc/315921787...l-Conf-Summary
          I have no idea if that could work, but I think you put a lot of effort and thought into that. Good work. I'd enjoy that conference.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by VALPOfan View Post
            Loyola's departure, and replacement with Oakland has actually worked to slightly counter the Horizon League's downward trend.

            2016 BPI 2015 BPI 2014 BPI 2013 BPI 4 Yr. Avg.
            Oakland 65.6 50 47.1 45.8 52.125
            Loyola (CHI) 48.2 56.5 37.3 50.9 48.225

            I think you'd have to go all the way back to the early 80s to qualify Loyola as a "used-to-be-good-program." Rogers Park campus right on Lake Michigan is very scenic though.
            LOL. They upgraded. We took on a boat anchor. Good thing they have a big endowment and TV market though!

            Comment


            • The problem with a new conference is that unless it's a stacked conference covering a huge geographic area, it's not going to be much better than the Valley long-term. the all-star mid-major conference that the Valpo fan posted would be great short term but could turn disgusting in 5-10 years. Don't get me wrong, I would take Valpo over an Evansville, Drake, or Loyola any day, but we don't share a long-term vision with Valpo and shouldn't be spearheading a new conference with them.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by VALPOfan View Post
                Good afternoon Shocker fans. I've been lurking around here since it seemed likely that a WSU exit from the MVC was the only way that Valpo would potentially be getting an MVC invite. It's been very interesting reading. Although Valpo hasn't achieved at the same level as WSU our positions seem similar. We have both come to dominate conferences that are recently diminished due to Big East defections (Creighton and Butler) and the fall off of previously successful programs (Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Cleveland State, Milwaukee - among others). The weakening of our conferences has led to grumbling among fans, but we also both seem to lack options for moving to a new home. Certainly based on the talk around here WSU would already be gone if a viable offer had been made by the MWC or AAC. It appears that a lack of football is keeping you out of any conference that has the potential to be significantly better than where you are already at - and adding football (at least to this outsider) seems like a real challenge.

                Given the lack of existing options, several posters have speculated about creating a new conference. There are obviously huge challenges with this, the biggest being a lack of NCAA shares without a likely TV contract lucrative enough to make up for them. However unlikely, it may still be the most feasible option other than adding a couple additional members who can only marginally improve a conference that is retaining all its existing members. So with this in mind I set out to build the best possible conference that WSU could have any chance of pulling together. I eliminated all schools with FBS football, and all schools already in the Big East or A10. I also eliminated schools on the coasts (no Gonzaga or VCU). I then looked at the schools that were left and picked out the strongest 9 based on a four year cumulative average of ESPN's Basketball Power Index (a computer ranking similar to KenPom, Sagarin and others). A quick look suggested that although this conference would lack big "brand" names, it could still potentially be as strong as any league outside the Power 5 + BE. I pulled more data together on this group of schools and have compiled it into a PDF. You can view it at the link at the bottom of this post.

                What is clear is that if something like this is to be attempted, WSU is the only school with the money, clout and on-court success to take the lead and make it happen. What do you think?

                https://www.scribd.com/doc/315921787...l-Conf-Summary
                I actually wouldn't mind this over our current situation. Would make for a great basketball conference and some really fun matchups. Probably a pipe dream, but major kudos for assembling all this. Well done. And welcome to the board.
                "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

                Comment


                • Originally posted by VALPOfan View Post
                  Good afternoon Shocker fans. I've been lurking around here since it seemed likely that a WSU exit from the MVC was the only way that Valpo would potentially be getting an MVC invite.
                  You have no idea the irony of this first sentence, in the context of the flaming bag of poo the MVC instead placed on our front porch a couple of years ago.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by VALPOfan View Post
                    I then looked at the schools that were left and picked out the strongest 9 based on a four year cumulative average of ESPN's Basketball Power Index (a computer ranking similar to KenPom, Sagarin and others). A quick look suggested that although this conference would lack big "brand" names, it could still potentially be as strong as any league outside the Power 5 + BE.

                    I pulled more data together on this group of schools and have compiled it into a PDF. You can view it at the link at the bottom of this post.

                    https://www.scribd.com/doc/315921787...l-Conf-Summary
                    Evansville? In the last 4 years they had Egidius Mockevicius. That's the only 4-year period since their days in D2 that they've had anything rewsembling success.

                    I'd trade Valpo for Evansville any day. I'd even throw in Drake to sweeten the deal.
                    The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                    We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aargh View Post
                      I'd trade Valpo for Evansville any day. I'd even throw in Drake to sweeten the deal.
                      no doubt

                      Comment


                      • I'll take UNI from that list...oh wait they are already in the Valley.

                        Big East, A-10, MWC, AAC are what to me the 4 targets should be. Big East isn't an option, apparently neither is AAC or MWC without a seasoned FBS team. A-10 for some reason hasn't really seemed to be a target for Bardo and the gang or at least not mentioned. Why not approach them with another "western" school for a total of 16 and giving greater east/west balance for Saint Louis.

                        WSU and UNI to A-10, with UNI leaving football in the MVCF. How would that be possible? Well as Pissed off Pattie pointed out, the football league is completely separate from the MVC and UNI is already in. They can't kick out a member for what they do with their other sports, so UNI/WICHITA leaving would absolutely plummet the Valley and make the A-10 that much stronger all while UNI still has a home for their football.

                        Comment


                        • If we're picking a partner to ditch the Valley with I think I'll take Bradley. It's close though.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by AndShock View Post
                            If we're picking a partner to ditch the Valley with I think I'll take Bradley. It's close though.
                            Well whatever but grabbing another "Western" school and knocking on the A-10's door seems about the only acceptable answer right now outside of staying in the Valley. Heck when UMass eventually gets a home for their FBS program and leaves the A-10 maybe they could add another "Western" school.

                            Comment


                            • People! Look at a map of where A-10 schools are located. If that isn't enough, consider that map without it's 2 farthest west schools if they were picked off by their brethren in a Big East expansion. The next closest school is in Pennsylvania.

                              Comment


                              • However "Atlantic" St. Louis isn't, Wichita is about 500 miles less so.

                                Comment

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