Trump 2020

[SB Shock]

People have been asking for some hard evidence to be presented.

If this isn't evidence I don't know what is. It's time to stop burying our heads in the sand and realize that there was mass voter fraud with respect to this election. I am not saying that anything will be over turned, because I think we are beyond that at this point, just that it is time to call a spade a spade.

It is not evidence at the moment of anything, it is a theory - if it was clear, hard cut evidence then we would see a law enforcement investigation and the Republican leaders of the state would be working on a legal remedy. This is a red-state, they are in charge of everything.

It is something to be investigate and develop some evidence. But they waited a fricking month to even get this far which is incomplete - This was something that was being talked about on Nov. 4th. This is either incompetence on the Trump team by not being properly staffed or they are just playing this game so Trump can just go on twitter every day until he dies and whine about how the election was stolen.

On the other hand I can come back with the theory that these 4 people are actually Trump supporters and were doing something for him and that is why Trump exceeded expectation from the exit polling by 8% in Fulton county.

The "election" of Biden as President is tainted and his legitimacy is definitely in question.

Possibly, or this is new normal. Every 4 years the losers claim the winner is tainted and his legitimacy is in question. This has only been going on for now the last 16 years. It started with Obama and where he was born, and then Trump as the Russian operative and now we have Kamala election that is a stolen election.

[SB Shock]

Who's exit polls? Links please.

I know you know how to use google. I also know that you know that the he National Election Pool (NEP), consisting of ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX News, and NBC, conducts a joint election exit poll. Since 2004 this exit poll has been conducted for the NEP by Edison Media Research. All the media uses the same data.

[SB Shock]

One problem is that we the people continually empower government to 'solve' our problems. Government is not intended to run your lives. It is supposed to be there to ensure your freedom and liberty. Fundamental examples include: protecting the states from other countries trying to invade us, allow and provide a system for you to address any grievances with other citizens through tort law (which is another citizen impeding on your freedom), etc. But we have this notion that life is somehow this big utopia and that no bad can ever happen and if bad happens, it's someone's fault and that government can fix it and make it go away.

Another fundamental problem is that we now allow our politicians to act as rulers and dictate laws to us. We do not elect politicians to be our rulers, we elect politicians to be our representatives. We should never fear a politician, the politicians should fear the citizens. We aren't electing kings and queens. We are electing employees to do our **** work while we go about our real lives.

I am not confident these 2 directions will ever reverse themselves, in addition to another thousand things that are steering us away from liberty.

Safety nets at the individual level are necessary, but I would outlaw government money going to private organizations. Period. If you want to dole out money to individuals, I'm fine with that to a certain extent. I think that would solve a lot of our corruption.

I think these are very good points and point to the root causes. As citizens we are willing to give away to many of our freedoms that we have under the constitution in the name of safety. It started under Bush (post 9/11 and continues to ramp up).

We have seen both parties with full control. Neither side has an answer, because they are not being driven by principal, but by retaining power. So they will do whatever they think they need to do to retain it.

For those who think that Trump was some great conservative president - he wasn't. He is really a old democrat at heart (which makes him a republican these days). Democrats lost a opportunity with him to get some things they wanted done, but they didn't want to work with him because it always about power, not results.

Now what I commend Trump for is he was loyal to those who put him in office and he carried through with his promises. You don't see with today politicians - they have their public positions, and they have their private positions.

[wufan]

I think these are very good points and point to the root causes. As citizens we are willing to give away to many of our freedoms that we have under the constitution in the name of safety. It started under Bush (post 9/11 and continues to ramp up).

We have seen both parties with full control. Neither side has an answer, because they are not being driven by principal, but by retaining power. So they will do whatever they think they need to do to retain it.

For those who think that Trump was some great conservative president - he wasn't. He is really a old democrat at heart (which makes him a republican these days). Democrats lost a opportunity with him to get some things they wanted done, but they didn't want to work with him because it always about power, not results.

Now what I commend Trump for is he was loyal to those who put him in office and he carried through with his promises. You don't see with today politicians - they have their public positions, and they have their private positions.

It started long before Bush. Most of us are only old enough to remember that far back.

[Shockm]

I don’t believe the sworn affidavits were submitted before a court. You have the opportunity to recant your claim I believe w/o perjuring yourself. I could be wrong.

I think you’re incorrect. I just heard a witness in a proceeding say that she swore to her statement under possible penalty of going to prison.

[Kung Wu]

I know you know how to use google. I also know that you know that the he National Election Pool (NEP), consisting of ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX News, and NBC, conducts a joint election exit poll. Since 2004 this exit poll has been conducted for the NEP by Edison Media Research. All the media uses the same data.

I did Google and did not find exit polls for Fulton County, GA.

I didn't know exit polling is a joint thing. Why would you think I would have known that? I never paid attention to exit polls.

[Shockm]

I think these are very good points and point to the root causes. As citizens we are willing to give away to many of our freedoms that we have under the constitution in the name of safety. It started under Bush (post 9/11 and continues to ramp up).

We have seen both parties with full control. Neither side has an answer, because they are not being driven by principal, but by retaining power. So they will do whatever they think they need to do to retain it.

For those who think that Trump was some great conservative president - he wasn't. He is really a old democrat at heart (which makes him a republican these days). Democrats lost a opportunity with him to get some things they wanted done, but they didn't want to work with him because it always about power, not results.

Now what I commend Trump for is he was loyal to those who put him in office and he carried through with his promises. You don't see with today politicians - they have their public positions, and they have their private positions.

Trumps policies were conservative. However, if the Dems hadn’t fought him so hard, they probably could have got things through. I imagine you libs would support a libertarian candidate except all of the lib candidates have sucked.

[wufan]

Libertarian candidates do suck.

[Shockm]

Libertarian candidates do suck.

Well you do have Principles. But with Bern, AOC, the Squad, Washington (Seattle but the entire state), Oregon (Portland), California, New York, Michigan, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, etc. are all liberal or becoming more liberal. Libs and their Principles are going down the drain, not gaining ground. I have Conservative friends and relatives in Washington, Oregon, and California who are totally shocked at far and how fast liberalism has exploded in their states. Maybe you would be happier living in Sanctuary States where more liberalism is encouraged.

[ShockingButTrue]

Well you do have Principles. But with Bern, AOC, the Squad, Washington (Seattle but the entire state), Oregon (Portland), California, New York, Michigan, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, etc. are all liberal or becoming more liberal. Libs and their Principles are going down the drain, not gaining ground. I have Conservative friends and relatives in Washington, Oregon, and California who are totally shocked at far and how fast liberalism has exploded in their states. Maybe you would be happier living in Sanctuary States where more liberalism is encouraged.

Have to agree.

This modern brand of progressiveness pushes diversity much too much. Textbook unintended consequences. Does Michelle Obama hate half of America, because she gives that impression (doesn't make it so)?

[wufan]

Well you do have Principles. But with Bern, AOC, the Squad, Washington (Seattle but the entire state), Oregon (Portland), California, New York, Michigan, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, etc. are all liberal or becoming more liberal. Libs and their Principles are going down the drain, not gaining ground. I have Conservative friends and relatives in Washington, Oregon, and California who are totally shocked at far and how fast liberalism has exploded in their states. Maybe you would be happier living in Sanctuary States where more liberalism is encouraged.

Are you confusing libertarianism and liberalism? I’m lost on what you’re trying to say here.

If I were to self-identify myself here, I’m a right leaning anti-authoratarian. Small government grants the most freedoms and best limits cronyism. I could be categorized as classically liberal, which is in opposition to progressively liberal. I do believe the federal government must protect the rights of its citizens, and one of those powers is to limit immigration. This is much more important to me than it should be because the federal government has over-stepped its role enacting tax funded welfare. Remove that, and I’m generally okay with loose immigration policy I suppose, but as it stands, I am extremely opposed to sanctuary states.

[wufan]

I think you’re incorrect. I just heard a witness in a proceeding say that she swore to her statement under possible penalty of going to prison.

I looked it up. It’s more complex than either of us has alleged. At a certain point they become subject to perjury, but only in certain instances. Signing the statement itself does nothing, but if it is signed under certain conditions, then submitted to the court, then accepted by the court, then the statements that have direct influence on the outcome of the case are subject to perjury.

[1972Shocker]

What's going on here in Atlanta:

I cannot identify what exactly has been passed, I cannot say for sure that it was a usb and it’s not clear that anyone did anything improper. You see them looking around and the man’s body partially blocks the camera. The older woman hands something to her daughter. Then some speculated that she hands that thing to the man, that’s not clear. But if you saw action like this on a casino camera in Las Vegas it would certainly perk up the eyes of the security. It does appear that something is handed off. It does appear that there are questions that need to be asked. The two women were part of the earlier video where observers were allegedly kicked out and counting continued.

However, there is this also:

https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1334943817418600448

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Hmmmm...”statistically implausible” that Hiden Joe won.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-donald-trump-patrick-basham-mark-levin

[1972Shocker]

Our approach to election fraud is lunacy

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/our_approach_to_election_fraud_is_lunacy.html

Nothing is more important to our rights as a citizen than being assured of a free and fair election. If we can't trust in our election process, are we really in a democracy or just a banana republic?

There are hundreds of well documented anomalies including over a thousand affidavits stating under the penalty of perjury that significant irregularities occurred.

But we are relying on a skeleton crew of privately funded lawyers to try to get to the bottom of what by all accounts appears to be a massive fraud.

Or at least adequate evidence has been provided at this point to, in my opinion, establish probable cause to open a real invesitgation with the investigators actually having access to the evidence which among other things are the ballots and ballot envelopes, the voting machines and the ability to depose election officials and workers.

The government agencies and courts will tell you they require "proof" that fraud occurred before investigating. The problem is that the Trump campaign is not allowed access to the voting machines or able to do a forensic audit of ballots. How can anyone find proof without a detailed audit? Of course you can't have proof before the books are opened!

Does no one really care about our country? Or at least no one with the authority to compel and undertake a real investiation. I suppose President Trump could invoke the Insurrection Act and impose martial law to get to the bottom of things. But that medicine would porbably be worse than the cure and I doubt we would see anything that extreme.

I do not think the Trump team will be able to overturn the election results, regardless of how tainted they are without, having access to the evidence which is in control of the alleged perpetrators. Even if they were successful you have just as many people very upset about that as we know have who are upset at the current state of affairs and that group is much more prone to express their anger with violence.

So perhaps the answer is we should just agree to disagree and negotiate a divorce settlement.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/11/no_author/the-stolen-election-and-the-end-of-america-is-separation-the-answer/

what is becoming ever so clear and evident is that the nation we call the United States of America has now become de facto two countries with populations which not only disagree fundamentally with each other, but cannot communicate or talk with each other at all. They—we—speak entirely different languages, they—we—think in entirely different ways, and those differences are growing wider and more irreconcilable not less so.

This election—2020—underlines and emphasizes that radical and unbridgeable divide.

Throughout this year there has been increasing talk of some sort of nationwide separation, regional secession, as the only means to avoid continued, heightened and potentially violent conflict. Scholar Frank H. Buckley (at the George Mason University School of Law) has authored a fascinating book on the topic: American Secession: The Looming Threat of a National Breakup (Encounter Books). Although Buckley laments it, he begrudgingly admits that the nation we know as America cannot last, and that some sort of constitutional break-up might be a way out.

Perhaps down the road something will cause the country to re-unite and at that time pehaps a reconciliation could occur although that seems unlikely. Maybe going this route is not the way to go but the road we are on sure doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction.

A discussion of Buckley's book: https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/s...s-thinkable-1/

When two people are about to come to blows, it is best to separate them. Secession could do that for a deeply dysfunctional and hate-filled America. The question is whether it can be done constitutionally and peacefully.

Perhaps at least a civil civic discussion of a possible separation should be seriously undertaken. Maybe such a discussion would lead to other possible solutions. Would seem to be preferential to another Civil War. Not sure why it's called the Civil War. There was nothing civilized about it.

Perhaps it doesn't matter. Maybe the globalist will win and the United States will simply become an indistiguishable piece of the global pie whatever that looks like. Probably will look something like China.