Trump 2020

[Shockm]

My point was that there are two groups: There are those that evaluate the laws and use the laws in an attempt to create a competitive advantage. They are cronies. Then there are those that violate the laws to gain an advantage. They are criminals.

You have to hold both groups accountable to a standard beyond laws (which are created by a democracy, republic, oligarchy, or totalitarianism regime), and that standard is RIGHTS. The rights to life, liberty, and property are the things that stop cronies and criminals from coopting democracy and oppressing us. That’s also why right must not be extended beyond those which are rights by nature.

Give me Liberty over democracy.

I don’t see any liberty with authoritarian or totalitarian rule. If the elections go to the Dems, they pack the court, and put in DC and PR for statehood, your liberties will go out of the window for the courts allowing progressivism to thrive and liberty to fail. Conservatives aren’t trying to limit your liberties. Conservatives aren’t locking down private Christian schools (Kentucky)or restaurants (NY)

[SB Shock]

Our standards should be world standards, Right? Europe was doing mostly mail in balloting 7 years ago or so but they went away from it because of the dishonesty. Some states do it right but many abuse it. The use of machines had made the U..S. system, one to be modeled after except Democrats weren’t coming to the polls. Cheating solved that problem.

"That is why you do a national holiday and require in-person voting.

[SB Shock]

Does this count as evidence:

Georgia State Farm Arena Footage Shows Poll Workers Staying Behind, Pulling Out Suitcases With Ballots

https://www.theepochtimes.com/state-...g-2020-12-03-3

This might or might not be something. The problem is these people who are putting together the narrative are not very good story tellers. They have this theory of what they think is happening in this video, but they actually have not developed the evidence that supports their theory.

This video was so disjointed watching it, I didn't even have the patience to sit through and I tried skipping to the "hammer". If there was one, I missed it. Then they say the need 14 hours more to go through the video. What? You have 14 people watching different segments making the proper annotations and then come back together and put the story together in a informative fashion. Time is short, you can sleep after December 14.

Now I would put these 4 people in separate interrogation rooms, and if you have a good FBI interrogator they could turn at least 1 as states evidence if there was really something going on.

[Kung Wu]

This might or might not be something. The problem is these people who are putting together the narrative are not very good story tellers. They have this theory of what they think is happening in this video, but they actually have not developed the evidence that supports their theory.

I mean they clarified that these machines can calculate 3,000 votes per hour. They demonstrated that the observers and press were asked to leave. They demonstrated that about 5-10 minutes later they pulled suitcases of ballots out from under a table. They showed footage of 4 people processing ballots for 2 hours without observers, and after observers were specifically asked to leave. They showed that 3,000 votes x 4 people processing x 2 hours = a potential of 24,000 falsified votes.

Now somebody needs to explain exactly why they asked observers to leave, told them that they were done counting for the evening, then continued operation 5-10 minutes later for a 2 hour time span (conveniently quitting right before the observers showed back up). And where did those ballots come from? And where are the audit logs for that time span, showing the breakdown in vote results at that time?

[SB Shock]

I mean they clarified that these machines can calculate 3,000 votes per hour. They demonstrated that the observers and press were asked to leave. They demonstrated that about 5-10 minutes later they pulled suitcases of ballots out from under a table. They showed footage of 4 people processing ballots for 2 hours without observers, and after observers were specifically asked to leave. They showed that 3,000 votes x 4 people processing x 2 hours = a potential of 24,000 falsified votes in this one county alone.

Yes they told us the potential harm (if their facts are correct). Assuming something was nefarious going on - what if they were Trump operatives?

Also, these people were either very stupid - doing this in front of several surveillance cameras or they didn't think they were doing anything wrong.

Now somebody needs to explain exactly why they asked observers to leave, told them that they were done counting for the evening, then continued operation 5-10 minutes later for a 2 hour time span (conveniently quitting right before the observers showed back up). And where did those ballots come from? And where are the audit logs for that time span, showing the breakdown in vote results at that time?

I think those are all good questions that I would be asking plus more. This is a Republican Governed state, so I would think they would be very enthused on exposing Democratic voting fraud - so why are they not pursuing this?

[SB Shock]

I looked at the exit polling for Georgia. The exit polls showed the Georgia Metro Area breaking 80% for Biden, 19% for Trump. Results in Fulton County was 72% Biden, 26% for Trump. So Trump beat the exit polling by +8%.

[wufan]

I don’t see any liberty with authoritarian or totalitarian rule. If the elections go to the Dems, they pack the court, and put in DC and PR for statehood, your liberties will go out of the window for the courts allowing progressivism to thrive and liberty to fail. Conservatives aren’t trying to limit your liberties. Conservatives aren’t locking down private Christian schools (Kentucky)or restaurants (NY)

Democracy doesn’t solve the problem. It’s simply a tool that favors cronies or criminals. As noted, a democratic election occurred and a substantial portion of the population believes it has lead us closer to authoritarianism. 4 years ago a different portion of the population believed the same thing. Why do you believe that mob rule must be protected? The founding fathers new this, which is why they wrote down the rights of man and put in place checks and balances (one of which is democracy) to protect those rights. Certainly, if democracy fades, one check/balance would be eroded, but not the goal of government; which is to protect individual liberty.

[Shockm]

Yes they told us the potential harm (if their facts are correct). Assuming something was nefarious going on - what if they were Trump operatives?

Also, these people were either very stupid - doing this in front of several surveillance cameras or they didn't think they were doing anything wrong.



I think those are all good questions that I would be asking plus more. This is a Republican Governed state, so I would think they would be very enthused on exposing Democratic voting fraud - so why are they not pursuing this?

Whoever it was that put this together, my understanding is that this evidence has the fullness of perjury behind the affidavits. If someone lied, they could and should pay a price for it. The same is true if election officials broke the law, but I don't know the remedy for the election officials breaking the law. We do know perjury is the price for those witnesses who said they were sent out of the room until the next day when the official vote count was to continue.

[Shockm]

Democracy doesn’t solve the problem. It’s simply a tool that favors cronies or criminals. As noted, a democratic election occurred and a substantial portion of the population believes it has lead us closer to authoritarianism. 4 years ago a different portion of the population believed the same thing. Why do you believe that mob rule must be protected? The founding fathers new this, which is why they wrote down the rights of man and put in place checks and balances (one of which is democracy) to protect those rights. Certainly, if democracy fades, one check/balance would be eroded, but not the goal of government; which is to protect individual liberty.

Well, we know that we are that much closer to authoritarianism (when the FBI, and it appears the Obama White House is involved in investigating a campaign on bad evidence-the Russia Collusion narrative). The beliefs of some people (Obama and Biden White House) are that they are above the law.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

People have been asking for some hard evidence to be presented. If this isn't evidence I don't know what is. It's time to stop burying our heads in the sand and realize that there was mass voter fraud with respect to this election. I am not saying that anything will be over turned, because I think we are beyond that at this point, just that it is time to call a spade a spade. The "election" of Biden as President is tainted and his legitimacy is definitely in question.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/brian-kemp-georgia-brad-raffensperger-signature-audit

[ShockerPrez]

One problem is that we the people continually empower government to 'solve' our problems. Government is not intended to run your lives. It is supposed to be there to ensure your freedom and liberty. Fundamental examples include: protecting the states from other countries trying to invade us, allow and provide a system for you to address any grievances with other citizens through tort law (which is another citizen impeding on your freedom), etc. But we have this notion that life is somehow this big utopia and that no bad can ever happen and if bad happens, it's someone's fault and that government can fix it and make it go away.

Another fundamental problem is that we now allow our politicians to act as rulers and dictate laws to us. We do not elect politicians to be our rulers, we elect politicians to be our representatives. We should never fear a politician, the politicians should fear the citizens. We aren't electing kings and queens. We are electing employees to do our **** work while we go about our real lives.

I am not confident these 2 directions will ever reverse themselves, in addition to another thousand things that are steering us away from liberty.

Safety nets at the individual level are necessary, but I would outlaw government money going to private organizations. Period. If you want to dole out money to individuals, I'm fine with that to a certain extent. I think that would solve a lot of our corruption.

[Kung Wu]

I looked at the exit polling for Georgia. The exit polls showed the Georgia Metro Area breaking 80% for Biden, 19% for Trump. Results in Fulton County was 72% Biden, 26% for Trump. So Trump beat the exit polling by +8%.

Who's exit polls? Links please.

[Kung Wu]

Conveniently, the Fulton County Elections Director didn't attend the Georgia Senate Hearing where the evidence is being shown.

[WstateU]

Who's exit polls? Links please.

CNN?

[wufan]

Whoever it was that put this together, my understanding is that this evidence has the fullness of perjury behind the affidavits. If someone lied, they could and should pay a price for it. The same is true if election officials broke the law, but I don't know the remedy for the election officials breaking the law. We do know perjury is the price for those witnesses who said they were sent out of the room until the next day when the official vote count was to continue.

I don’t believe the sworn affidavits were submitted before a court. You have the opportunity to recant your claim I believe w/o perjuring yourself. I could be wrong.