Coronavirus 2019-nCoV

[WuDrWu]

https://www.jpost.com/health-science...overing-635550







I brought this issue up a while back and was met with the expected Covidiocy (denial, attacks, and then massive shaking of fists at the sky - and at me).

It appears that more and more reinfection cases are cropping up and I'm certain this is only the beginning. It's only been 5 months or so since the whole pandemic party got underway. If the immunity is short-lived, then we will start seeing more and more recurring infections soon.

Early on I was all for the immunity bracelet and thought that would be a great way for folks to get back to normal life after surviving the virus. But after seeing the behavior of some of my friends and taking personal inventory on my feelings after social distancing for many months now, I think it would only speed up infections.

Imagine the following scenario. A couple of your buddies just finished up with the Corona and they're hittin' the bars/restaurants/vacation destinations. They're buggin' you to come along. "Hey, I already got infected... I'm safe. What do you have to worry about?" So you think for a few moments and then the temptation is too great. "What could it hurt?", your average person thinks. We'll, just like the littering concept, if everybody thinks like that, all the bars, restaurants, and planes will be full of people travelling with a "safe person". It basically just wipes out social distancing through the back door.

To make a long story shorter... I think people who've been infected need to continue to wear masks (obviously there's no choice in some districts), not only out of respect and being a good influence to those of us who remain uninfected, but to also protect yourself.

Depending on how durable Covid-19 antibodies are on average, we are likely going to have to put our hopes on a strong vaccine, multiple vaccinations, and a very effective therapeutic. Relying on your own internal immunity at this point is probably not a solid bet.


T


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Please tell us how it feels to safely post from mom's basement, Cold.

So a couple dozen people across the world claim to have caught the virus twice and, to use your words, "relying on your own internal immunity at this point is probably not a solid bet". I'm not going to do the math, but the number of people that claim to have this twice have to be less that 0.0001% which suggests something different than weak antibodies across the board and "not a solid bet". JFC you're dense.

So a vaccine is a waste. To use your argument, masks will have to be worn forever now, we can't beat this virus. The human race is now on a short clock, Cold said so.

Masks absolutely DO NOT prevent you from getting the virus, period. To use your words they only mitigate transmission, sometimes.

I've said numerous times that I'm in a high risk category. I know that and I will make my own decisions (which so far have been to be very very careful with where I go and whom I associate with), thank you very much. NOT YOU and NOT the government. Cold you're worse than the WORST politician. You're convinced, not because of your intelligence but because of your arrogance which has NO BOUNDS, that you know best for everyone. You call yourself a conservative? You're a clown. You're worse than a clown, because most clowns are at least funny.

You ceased being funny a long time ago.


I realize that a lot of people here weren't alive for the genesis of the AIDS epidemic, and even more don't know much about it (especially early) but many (not all) of the things that occurred during the early days are eerily similar to what's happening today. You would think we've learned nothing. Although that seems to be how our society does things more and more often these days. Not learn from the past.

[wufan]

You are sure inconsistent. On the one hand, you would seem to support law and order and a strong community (since you are definitely against the BLM protests). On the other hand, you seem to be somewhat supportive of anarchy, particularly when it fits your world view (when it comes, say, to wearing a mask in order to keep yourself and others safe).

To me, that's an interesting paradox. At what point is it OK to go against the wishes of the majority to make a socially defiant point? And what is the difference between that point and the people who are making a point against the leader of this country?

I believe in negative rights and property rights (among other things, but those seem to be the most relevant here). I think you would find me very consistent in that framework.

BLM is authoritarian. They are violating people’s rights, they are saying that “you” must do something for my rights. That’s a positive rights stance. They are hurting other people physically and destroying property, therefore I believe that they deserve justice to be served to them. There have been several instances of police use of unnecessary force. They also must stand before justice.

I am not supportive of anarchy. I am supportive of freedom where you don’t infringe on someone else’s right. On masks, I wear a mask where asked to wear a mask, but there are no laws, only executive orders. It’s a negative right for me to choose one or the other. It’s a positive right if you say I must do it for you. If we are going to enact a positive right, it should be backed by data. That’s all I’m asking. Positive rights should not be treated lightly, and that’s not what’s happening here.

When should you go against the authoritarians (not masses)? Whenever you feel like they have stepped too far. That goes for you, me, Antifa, BLM, anyone. But it’s not when, it’s how. You should go against it by sacrificing your negative rights. You should lawfully and peacefully protest. If you can’t lawfully protest, then you should Still do it peacefully and face incrimination.

As for those that are protesting against Trump, I simply disagree with them, but if they got a permit and marched in the street and were beaten or arrested, I would speak up for those protestors. Most of my issues with those that are anti-Trump is the lying. When someone is lying, or even if I think they are lying/misinformed, I go pretty hard after that because if everyone keeps misrepresenting the truth, people will believe it. If someone is representing it honestly I will either disagree on principle or if I agree on principle, I will just let it go with the thought in my head, “yep that’s right.”

[wufan]

Apologies for the long post above, but I do have one more thing to say: I wear a mask because of my sense of community. I wear it because there are others that would deem it to be impolite if I didn’t. If someone took my politeness for granted and berated me for something (highly unlikely), I would take my mask off in defiance.

I’m a rule follower. Most are. Treat everyone equally, and the community will take care of each other. Start granting positive rights to one group over another, and watch as the politeness and community disappears.

[WuDrWu]

You're an ignorant and/or stubborn fool Doc. I'm sorry to tell you that on a Sunday.

You literally bagged on Aargh about driving with macular degeneration and implied he was putting YOUR safety into concern when he's on his way to get tested to make sure he is safe to drive. HE is the person willing to sacrifice by avoiding crowded areas and wearing a mask to protect YOU, but you're the Covidiot that thinks masks don't work so you aren't willing to protect him. Crazy how projection works ain't it?

P.S. Nice cherry on the top with all the "hardship" you had to endure driving one of your family members around. One of the biggest stressors on the aged is having to worry about relying on their children or someone else. Thanks for bullet-pointing Aargh's biggest fear.

JFC this pandemic has caused some of you people to literally lose your minds if not your humanity.

And furthermore...

SO ****ING WHAT IF MASKS DON'T WORK. YOU SUFFER A LITTLE INCONVENIENCE AND THAT'S IT. BUT IF THEY DO (AND THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO DO) AND YOU CONTINUE TO ACT LIKE A COVIDIOT, YOU JUST MAYBE KILLED SOMEONE.


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You should look at your history and rethink if you should be calling anyone a fool, stubborn or ignorant. And don't be sorry, you know, in for a penny and all?

I didn't 'bag' on Aargh. I pointed out the difference between a right and a privilege. Your reading comprehension has taken a hit lately.

Define "Covidiot", even in your terms. At no time have I said this isn't serious. If anyone defines Covidiot, it's you. Literally no one on the planet thinks it's as bad as you do.

And not to be rude, but I don't have to do anything to 'protect' Aargh anymore than you must stop a car thief if you see it occurring.

I don't believe I said it was a hardship what I did for family. I said it wasn't enjoyable. But I think it's what we, as family, should do more. Half the problem with people in their twilight years struggling with day to day events (like transportation) is because the family unit has deteriorated. We want to turn our kids over to the schools, then to the government and finally to the nursing homes....don't interfere with my desire to accumulate wealth and play golf. We should be BETTER persons. Our government however shouldn't MAKE us be better persons.

We can agree that some have literally lost their minds. No doubt about that. As for losing your humanity, I hope you don't think posting 4000 ***** sessions about Covidiots is what you think is doing your civic duty. However, I fear it is, especially given your arrogance.

[WuDrWu]

Apologies for the long post above, but I do have one more thing to say: I wear a mask because of my sense of community. I wear it because there are others that would deem it to be impolite if I didn’t. If someone took my politeness for granted and berated me for something (highly unlikely), I would take my mask off in defiance.

I’m a rule follower. Most are. Treat everyone equally, and the community will take care of each other. Start granting positive rights to one group over another, and watch as the politeness and community disappears.

Best post of the day. And I agree wholeheartedly.

[wichshock65]

Curious... But did you actually look at the website?

Here are the next few stories going down the list

"How Obama, Biden and Clinton helped Russia's Putin weaponize energy"

"Former captive blasts Biden: 'You left us behind in Iran. Remember?'"

"New Russia probe memos expose massive errors in NYT anti-Trump story, Steele dossier"

"Media Bias: CNN's Henderson, Blitzer suggest Trump handling pandemic poorly"

"Planned Parenthood affiliate tied to fetal organ harvesting took $7.5 million stimulus loan"


That's just the next few down the list. Does that seem like an unbiased non political listing of news stories? One that doesn't seem to definitely lean in one direction?

What part of the article did you find biased and unreliable? You did read it, didn't you?

[C0|dB|00ded]

Please tell us how it feels to safely post from mom's basement, Cold.

So a couple dozen people across the world claim to have caught the virus twice and, to use your words, "relying on your own internal immunity at this point is probably not a solid bet". I'm not going to do the math, but the number of people that claim to have this twice have to be less that 0.0001% which suggests something different than weak antibodies across the board and "not a solid bet". JFC you're dense.

So a vaccine is a waste. To use your argument, masks will have to be worn forever now, we can't beat this virus. The human race is now on a short clock, Cold said so.

Masks absolutely DO NOT prevent you from getting the virus, period. To use your words they only mitigate transmission, sometimes.

I've said numerous times that I'm in a high risk category. I know that and I will make my own decisions (which so far have been to be very very careful with where I go and whom I associate with), thank you very much. NOT YOU and NOT the government. Cold you're worse than the WORST politician. You're convinced, not because of your intelligence but because of your arrogance which has NO BOUNDS, that you know best for everyone. You call yourself a conservative? You're a clown. You're worse than a clown, because most clowns are at least funny.

You ceased being funny a long time ago.


I realize that a lot of people here weren't alive for the genesis of the AIDS epidemic, and even more don't know much about it (especially early) but many (not all) of the things that occurred during the early days are eerily similar to what's happening today. You would think we've learned nothing. Although that seems to be how our society does things more and more often these days. Not learn from the past.

This wasn't a good post. To be fair there's been a lot of data shared in this thread and it's easy to get behind.



"So a vaccine is a waste. To use your argument"

-I did not say a vaccine was a waste. I said we will likely have to have multiple yearly Covid vaccinations if the good doctor is right about Coronavirus antibody durability.



"JFC you're dense."

-That's impossible. I'm likely the smartest guy you know. ;)



"Please tell us how it feels to safely post from mom's basement, Cold."

-I wish! However, I don't visit my folks much anymore since the pandemic (see: my covid therapy thread)



"You ceased being funny a long time ago."

-I'm not in this thread for entertainment purposes, I assure you.



"Cold you're worse than the WORST politician. You're convinced, not because of your intelligence but because of your arrogance which has NO BOUNDS, that you know best for everyone. You call yourself a conservative? You're a clown. You're worse than a clown,"

-My logic has been tested in university to be almost without fault. When I'm being serious and not ***** around, you can best be sure that my advice will be about as rational and strategically sound as you're gonna find this side of Vulcan. Does that make me arrogant? Well... it makes me confident. I'm not wrong often in life. I probably sound arrogant on these forums but that's because I'm CB and not the real me. You're supposed to be able to see past that by now... My online persona is only a means for trapping fools on ValleyTalk. ;) It's hard to shut it totally off though after all these years. I apologize for triggering you. I am here to offer insightful information and rebuff those who act like irresponsible Covidiots.



"So a couple dozen people across the world claim to have caught the virus twice and, to use your words, "relying on your own internal immunity at this point is probably not a solid bet""

-I know this statement is upsetting to you. It was upsetting to me when I first learned it several months ago. The coronvirus immune response is by-and-large very temporary. The only reason we are seeing a smattering of reinfection cases is because... it's early. All those infected in Jan-Mar could quite possibly start to lose immunity 3-6-12mos later. This is per Dr. Fauci and just about everyone else that has worked with coronaviruses. It's the same basic structure as the cold and we can keep getting the same colds every year. I was holding out hope that they were somehow wrong as there is a stronger immune response with SARS1 and MERS. Now that I've read at least half a dozen instances of people getting reinfected, I am losing confidence on the issue.

So yes, if Covid-19 anitbodies are not durable, and without a safe and effective vaccine administered several times a year, we would be looking at battling this into the foreseeable future. It would be masks, social distancing, and a lot of take-out dinners until eventually people just stopped giving a **** and the folks that were going to die (maybe you?) died and whoever was left would be asymptomatic or just have a mild cough every year.

This is the plain truth.


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[WuDrWu]

This wasn't a good post. To be fair there's been a lot of data shared in this thread and it's easy to get behind.



"So a vaccine is a waste. To use your argument"

-I did not say a vaccine was a waste. I said we will likely have to have multiple yearly Covid vaccinations if the good doctor is right about Coronavirus antibody durability.



"JFC you're dense."

-That's impossible. I'm likely the smartest guy you know. ;)



"Please tell us how it feels to safely post from mom's basement, Cold."

-I wish! However, I don't visit my folks much anymore since the pandemic (see: my covid therapy thread)



"You ceased being funny a long time ago."

-I'm not in this thread for entertainment purposes, I assure you.



"Cold you're worse than the WORST politician. You're convinced, not because of your intelligence but because of your arrogance which has NO BOUNDS, that you know best for everyone. You call yourself a conservative? You're a clown. You're worse than a clown,"

-My logic has been tested in university to be almost without fault. When I'm being serious and not ***** around, you can best be sure that my advice will be about as rational and strategically sound as you're gonna find this side of Vulcan. Does that make me arrogant? Well... it makes me confident. I'm not wrong often in life. I probably sound arrogant on these forums but that's because I'm CB and not the real me. You're supposed to be able to see past that by now... My online persona is only a means for trapping fools on ValleyTalk. ;) It's hard to shut it totally off though after all these years. I apologize for triggering you. I am here to offer insightful information and rebuff those who act like irresponsible Covidiots.



"So a couple dozen people across the world claim to have caught the virus twice and, to use your words, "relying on your own internal immunity at this point is probably not a solid bet""

-I know this statement is upsetting to you. It was upsetting to me when I first learned it several months ago. The coronvirus immune response is by-and-large very temporary. The only reason we are seeing a smattering of reinfection cases is because... it's early. All those infected in Jan-Mar could quite possibly start to lose immunity 3-6-12mos later. This is per Dr. Fauci and just about everyone else that has worked with coronaviruses. It's the same basic structure as the cold and we can keep getting the same colds every year. I was holding out hope that they were somehow wrong as there is a stronger immune response with SARS1 and MERS. Now that I've read at least half a dozen instances of people getting reinfected, I am losing confidence on the issue.

So yes, if Covid-19 anitbodies are not durable, and without a safe and effective vaccine administered several times a year, we would be looking at battling this into the foreseeable future. It would be masks, social distancing, and a lot of take-out dinners until eventually people just stopped giving a **** and the folks that were going to die (maybe you?) died and whoever was left would be asymptomatic or just have a mild cough every year.

This is the plain truth.


T


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This was a terrible post, but then again, it came from you so it's all relative.

You're taking a LOT of liberties with ifs and buts.

You literally said relying on the immune system isn't a good bet. Science suggests you're incredibly wrong. Could you be right? A stopped clock is right twice a day, so anything is possible. I'll go a step further, if you're right, then we're all likely dead from this. So go ahead and live it up now.

Again with your insane arrogance. The only reason the reinfections are so few is because it's early. You must win every lottery.

You haven't triggered me anymore than politicians that think they know best for everyone trigger me. It's wrong. It always has been wrong, and it always will be wrong.

You state so many facts that are completely and utterly unsupported. "The coronvirus (sic) immune response is by-and-large very temporary". Again, this weeks lottery numbers please.

What does Dr. Fauci's unit taste like? (I kid because I care).

You've read about 6 people getting reinfected and you're losing confidence. It's a shame that a half dozen occurrences elsewhere in your life can't affect other confidences. You'd be better off. We all would.


And literally the funniest and most arrogant thing you will ever say "I'm likely the smartest person you know :)" The truth is that you aren't an idiot. You're probably above average intelligence as most are on this board. You aren't even CLOSE to being the most intelligent person on this board of roughly 200 or so active participants, much less even sniffing the most intelligent person in my family (you wouldn't be in the top 5 and that's just 1 layer of family) to say nothing of my circle of friends. Again, what an incredibly arrogant thing to say. Really smart people don't have to tell others how smart they are, for the most part. You aren't the exception my friend.

And please don't waste space and time on this fine forum claiming that I or Fever or wufan or anyone else that's triggered you thinks this thing isn't serious. We all do. We just don't think it's as serious as you and your voodoo dolls think it is.

[Kung Wu]

Just look at the headlines about Sweden concerning coronavirus. Disaster, and they did it entirely wrong, right?

[Kung Wu]

Sweden never took primary school kids out of school. They took 16 year old kids and older out of school late in the game. From what I have read, they didn't shut down kids' sports and events such as cheerleading. They eventually limited gatherings of 50+ people. They never recommended face masks. They did begin locking down nursing homes when it became obvious that is where the real risk was.

[C0|dB|00ded]

This was a terrible post, but then again, it came from you so it's all relative.

You're taking a LOT of liberties with ifs and buts.

You literally said relying on the immune system isn't a good bet. Science suggests you're incredibly wrong. Could you be right? A stopped clock is right twice a day, so anything is possible. I'll go a step further, if you're right, then we're all likely dead from this. So go ahead and live it up now.

Again with your insane arrogance. The only reason the reinfections are so few is because it's early. You must win every lottery.

You haven't triggered me anymore than politicians that think they know best for everyone trigger me. It's wrong. It always has been wrong, and it always will be wrong.

You state so many facts that are completely and utterly unsupported. "The coronvirus (sic) immune response is by-and-large very temporary". Again, this weeks lottery numbers please.

What does Dr. Fauci's unit taste like? (I kid because I care).

You've read about 6 people getting reinfected and you're losing confidence. It's a shame that a half dozen occurrences elsewhere in your life can't affect other confidences. You'd be better off. We all would.


And literally the funniest and most arrogant thing you will ever say "I'm likely the smartest person you know :)" The truth is that you aren't an idiot. You're probably above average intelligence as most are on this board. You aren't even CLOSE to being the most intelligent person on this board of roughly 200 or so active participants, much less even sniffing the most intelligent person in my family (you wouldn't be in the top 5 and that's just 1 layer of family) to say nothing of my circle of friends. Again, what an incredibly arrogant thing to say. Really smart people don't have to tell others how smart they are, for the most part. You aren't the exception my friend.

And please don't waste space and time on this fine forum claiming that I or Fever or wufan or anyone else that's triggered you thinks this thing isn't serious. We all do. We just don't think it's as serious as you and your voodoo dolls think it is.

Your highly emotional responses to your own misrepresentations of what I said or implied has me at a disadvantage. I don't have the patience to parse through your intentional/unintentional errors. I think careful readers of my posts can understand them clearly and they require no further explanation.

And as far as my intelligence is concerned... you brought it up first champ and you didn't do it in a very kind way. :) I doubt I have ever touted/defended it in 20 years of posting on this board, but I assure you, once again, I'm likely the smartest guy you know. ;) If you'd like to know more about that, send me a PM.. or maybe we could have a phone call!!! lol In nearly every group setting I've been in since the age of 18 where there's a topic of consequence, I am either tacitly or explicitly identified as the expert in the room. And I really wish that weren't true.

I can't troll with you so you're gonna have to win the smackdown battle. I'm too effective at it. Then I'll get banned. I've already been accused for spamming this forum which is kinda weird.

I'll wait for your PM. We'll see if you have the balls to trash me privately... wufan didn't...


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[ShockerFever]

I vouched hard to bring you back from your ban a few years ago Cold. It sounds like you were given a set of rules to get clearance to return. Does personally attacking and calling everyone that disagrees with you an idiot align with your set of resquirements for reinstatement?

[ShockerFever]

Not important, but deaths declined for a third straight day. As few of deaths as July 12th. Somebody needs to let the virus know it's been over 2 weeks since the 4th of July implosion spike were to commence.

[Kung Wu]

What if I told you the ENTIRE COUNTRY of Sweden (population 10 million) has the exact same number of people in ICU beds as Sedgwick County (population 516,000)?

[C0|dB|00ded]

I vouched hard to bring you back from your ban a few years ago Cold. It sounds like you were given a set of rules to get clearance to return. Does personally attacking and calling everyone that disagrees with you an idiot align with your set of resquirements for reinstatement?

I wasn't given a set of rules per se (I even asked for them), but I did give my word that I was retired. And I am. CSNBBS was my last hurrah. And by golly, I turned that fooker on its head. It went from boring to must-see-TV overnight. So. Many. Lols. Almost was checkmate if it weren't for that dang Penny sticky that I missed. I had walked the line so expertly up until that point. Oh well, I'm only human. :)

I'm not trolling people in here, the facts are. I do not believe I've called anybody a name directly except for Doc today and he deserved it. His comments towards Aargh were insensitive (yes, I just said that). You don't make an old guy with bad eyes feel bad about it. You can talk trash about darts; you don't hit 'em like that. Even "CB" has codes of conduct. Doc is going mental. Perhaps Covid is hitting his business hard and he's venting. That's totally understandable and he should post his frustrations in that little support thread I started. But after the 10th disparagement... I'm gonna check him just a little. He wouldn't say that **** to my face, I guarantee you that. He used to email me all kinds of weird **** back in the day, but after I announced that our basketball program had lost its edge and then went Old Testament on Mini-B and Belt-Tight, the romance is definitely off lol. Oh well.

Yes I use the term Covidiot, but in a general sense. The implication is that there are Covidiots in this thread. I define a Covidiot as a person that does everything possible to avoid the uncomfortable reality we are facing and continually attempts to distort said reality with half-assed conspiracy theories and/or manipulated data. If using the term Covidiot in a general sense to infer that a group (of which you could possibly be a member) is keeping you up at night and causing you to seek counseling I will never utter it again. The reality is I could go hard on you (and others) when you **** up like you could not even imagine. I see every contradiction and logical fallacy and there have been innumerable examples. But I just ignore 99% of them. Perhaps you've forgotten my work in the past? I was literally born to debate. Maybe you even want to see that side again? Well it ain't gonna happen friend. This isn't "troll wars" anymore. You get CB-lite and you'll like it. I will continue to carefully stick to the facts and ignore your and others' taunts. Doc kind of went overboard so I gave him a gentle correction. Then he started to go after my intelligence... lolwut? This is the same guy that tried to compliment me when I was banned back in '12... something about "so sad this forum losing a mind like Cold's blah blah blah" lol. Nevertheless, if he's concerned about my competence and that I might be leading this board astray, he is welcome to chat with me on the phone and I'll put his mind at ease with the quickness...

In closing: I'm gonna try and post less because the bossman indicated (in another thread) that I might be "spamming". I respect him so I will acquiesce. I'm not lookin' for trouble. I'm not even trying to be slick. I just want people to do their part so we can get back to normal life. Pretending like death counts are fake and masks don't work is not gonna cut it! I guess you could say I have an ulterior motive.

P.S. And since you're so worried about name calling, maybe start with yourself in stifling it. You're one of the worst offenders on the board. I can be horrifically oppressive in my own way, but I don't do it with personal attacks. That's for lesser...... minds. ;)


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