Coronavirus 2019-nCoV

[ShockerFever]

Isn't this how medicare works though? They negotiate, or really mandate, a rate they are willing to pay for certain services and illnesses - right? When a medicare patient presents themselves at a hospital and receives COVID-19 treatment that's the rate the hospital bills medicare? In this case, by law, a 20% premium on the base rate charge. Also, the numbers, based on what I've read, are market specific based on a rate set by medicare.

Medicare fraud does happen - especially from current US Senators from Florida. But hospitals getting paid for patients through medicare is literally how the system works!

But are those figures higher than your typical run of the mill pneumonia or flu treatment?

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

Just because it "might" be overinflated, and there's reason to believe that, doesn't mean it's done so as a conspiracy. Did someone claim there was? Again, the policy is in plain sight: The CDC states regardless of overlying or underlying it's gonna be covid. I cited CDC guidelines, and expert opinions, not uneducated guesses. End of discussion on that point (with me anyway).

Because docs are bound by ethical cannons, where executives who don't depend on a license aren't.

If I violate my ethical requirements in the discharge of my professional responsibilities, I can either be warned, be punished or outright lose my accreditation.

Losing my accreditation prevents me from being able to demonstrate a sufficient degree of professional expertise means I am probably not employable.

This is very similar to a doc and the medical board.

Now if you can show me something in Kansas licensing requirements for a doctor that they can't/don't have to abide by ethical standards (including honesty in the discharge of their responsibilities), please show that to me and then we can continue this conversation.

[wsushox1]

But are those figures higher than your typical run of the mill pneumonia or flu treatment?

By law, the COVID-19 rates are 20% higher than the base rates.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Based on what though? The CDC excess cases line up nicely for New Jersey but horribly skewed for New York.

It's not a conspiracy, I agree with that. What I think happened is doctors got extremely overwhelmed and simply didn't have time or resources to focus on postmortems while they were focused on saving lives. The easy way to deal with that was blame it on coronavirus and move on to treating living patients.

That's my best guess as to what happened to jack up New York's numbers so terribly.

Most cases of Covid-19 present quite clearly in the ER: ground glass opacity chest CT, "happy" hypoxia, lesions on the feet, dry cough + double pneumonia + negative influenza quick test, rare clotting (e.g. large arterial blockage on a guy that's 45...).

I suspect the skewed numbers in NYC are due to an aggressive outbreak unlike any other in the U.S. (and perhaps the world). (This was the scenario I was warning Shockernetters about - wanna see the lilly pad video again?) :)

When a lethal, novel viral outbreak with a high percentage of asymptomatics gets loose in a tight community of rather impoverished people, the death rate will stretch the tails of the distribution curve.

The rest of the U.S. has been very lucky so far....


T


...

[C0|dB|00ded]

I know it’s premature and may mean nothing but I appreciate a positive memo from you in this sea of negativity. Hopefully it pans out. Thanks

I'm not here to blow sunshine my friend, I'm here to be a countervailing force so this place doesn't spiral into a cesspool of propaganda and endanger people's lives. I'm frankly shocked and embarrassed upon learning that there is actually a political divide over "death figures". This isn't coming from Trump. Maybe some nut job like Alex Jones? It makes me sad to see it happening on here.

1) Covid-19 is a very deadly and contagious virus.
2) You do not want to get it (unless you've already got it and don't know it).
3) There are many lasting repercussions for those that have "recovered" (we will not know the full effect for years).
4) If you'll only wear a mask, it doesn't matter what political party you identify with, you will be doing your part to help the country.
5) If you don't wear a mask or social distance because you are a denier... you are retarded and can @#$& off.
P.S. I partake in all sorts of positive information on the subject but I don't pump it in here because there are already many who are attempting to spin this as overblown (perhaps yourself?). It would be irresponsible for me to add fuel to the fire so I will play the part of Death Angel.

Stay safe people!


T


...

[wufan]

Because docs are bound by ethical cannons, where executives who don't depend on a license aren't.

If I violate my ethical requirements in the discharge of my professional responsibilities, I can either be warned, be punished or outright lose my accreditation.

Losing my accreditation prevents me from being able to demonstrate a sufficient degree of professional expertise means I am probably not employable.

This is very similar to a doc and the medical board.

Now if you can show me something in Kansas licensing requirements for a doctor that they can't/don't have to abide by ethical standards (including honesty in the discharge of their responsibilities), please show that to me and then we can continue this conversation.

What is this ethical cannon you speak of, and where is it required for Kansas Licensure? Pretty sure that’s not a thing.

[wufan]

By law, the COVID-19 rates are 20% higher than the base rates.

Exactly. They “negotiated(?)” 20% more of they have Covid.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

What is this ethical cannon you speak of, and where is it required for Kansas Licensure? Pretty sure that’s not a thing.

OK, so it's buried in the pronouncements, as opposed to being a standard.

https://www.mdlinx.com/internal-medicine/article/3734

So I will give you part of that one.

But here's the other question: Who is making the money off this transaction (or who is making more)? Defrauding the federal government is a felony, but prosecutors have been known to file civil charges if it is a corporation.

Would a doc risk his reputation and freedom for that? Perhaps some would, but I don't think most would. On the other hand, I know the brother of a doc who habitually attempted to defraud the federal government through tax fraud and got 10 years at Club Fed, so that's evidence it could happen.

[wufan]

OK, so it's buried in the pronouncements, as opposed to being a standard.

https://www.mdlinx.com/internal-medicine/article/3734

So I will give you part of that one.

But here's the other question: Who is making the money off this transaction (or who is making more)? Defrauding the federal government is a felony, but prosecutors have been known to file civil charges if it is a corporation.

Would a doc risk his reputation and freedom for that? Perhaps some would, but I don't think most would. On the other hand, I know the brother of a doc who habitually attempted to defraud the federal government through tax fraud and got 10 years at Club Fed, so that's evidence it could happen.

It’s a guidance. Most professions have them. It is not a standard by which they can’t maintain their license. I will go ahead take all of that one.

When I was a medical student I worked for several doctors that were unscrupulous, though most were very good people. I worked for some administrators that were unscrupulous, though most were good people.

Why do you think one becomes a doctor? Most will tell you that they want to help people. That may be true, but why not be a nurse or a firefighter or a policeman? Because those positions don’t come with prestige, power, and wealth all baked into the cake.

Why does one become a high powered CEO? Prestige, power, and wealth. Ask one, and they’ll tell you that they work so hard for their employees and their customers! That may be true.

[ShockerFever]

Most cases of Covid-19 present quite clearly in the ER: ground glass opacity chest CT, "happy" hypoxia, lesions on the feet, dry cough + double pneumonia + negative influenza quick test, rare clotting (e.g. large arterial blockage on a guy that's 45...).

I suspect the skewed numbers in NYC are due to an aggressive outbreak unlike any other in the U.S. (and perhaps the world). (This was the scenario I was warning Shockernetters about - wanna see the lilly pad video again?) :)

When a lethal, novel viral outbreak with a high percentage of asymptomatics gets loose in a tight community of rather impoverished people, the death rate will stretch the tails of the distribution curve.

The rest of the U.S. has been very lucky so far....


T


...

So has Canada, and Australia, and southern Italy, and Kansas, and California.

If this thing is as contagious as it is, then why are the numbers not consistent everywhere? Seems weird.

[pinstripers]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/shutdown-continues-to-hurt-healthcare-mayo-clinic-cuts-1-6-billion-in-pay-quest-diagnostics-lays-off-thousands

[wufan]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/shutd...-off-thousands

My wife is an essential worker in healthcare. She got furloughed.

[Aargh]

So has Canada, and Australia, and southern Italy, and Kansas, and California.

If this thing is as contagious as it is, then why are the numbers not consistent everywhere? Seems weird.

The numbers are highly skewed by where flights from Europe and China landed. Flights from China landed on the west coast. Flights from Europe landed on the east coast. Interesting to note that the strain from Europe was more contagious than the strain from China. Where both strains existed in a population, the European strain became the dominant strain and eventually eliminated the Chinese strain. The strain from Europe originated in China, but mutated in Europe before being brought to the US.

[Aargh]

Some interesting thoughts from Laurie Garrett. I'll link her credentials later.

The most interesting is that her current research indicates that 100% of current acute cases are in people with high blood pressure. She's proposing that simple blood pressure test could identify susceptible people and handle them differently than the rest of the population.

The other was that she's predicting that we will be dealing with this for 36 months unless an effective vaccine that can be distributed worldwide is developed before then.

Here's her credentials. Starts with Harvard education with an emphasis on Public Health

https://www.lauriegarrett.com/about

[ShockerFever]

The numbers are highly skewed by where flights from Europe and China landed. Flights from China landed on the west coast. Flights from Europe landed on the east coast. Interesting to note that the strain from Europe was more contagious than the strain from China. Where both strains existed in a population, the European strain became the dominant strain and eventually eliminated the Chinese strain. The strain from Europe originated in China, but mutated in Europe before being brought to the US.

Where are you getting your facts from?

The virus is everywhere. It's made it around the world. But why is New York's so much higher? Even densely populated New Jersey (right next door) isn't reporting the same rate of infection. Why is that?

The virus doesn't know there's border between New York and New Jersey, or New York and Canada. Yes, NY is an urban mess of intertwining people but there's a lot of densely populated areas around there too, even in Canada. If the virus is so contagious, it shouldn't need people sitting on each other's laps in subways to spread at the rate it did there. There's a lot of door handles in Canada too.