Elephant in the Room

[Veritas]

Worthy? Of what? You offer nothing to WSU or specifically to the VB program. No knowledge. No support. Nothing but trying to tear it down.

It was just a few years ago the discussion about transfers started. You and others who know nothing but what the papers say condemning WSU because players are transferring. You say it is a losing program.

But you offer nothing in comparison to other schools for how we fit to the trend. You offer no support. You are like the KU fans who ran off the only coach in history who could win in Lawrence because he was a meany head and someone’s feelings got hurt.

The more you deflect the more it is clear you were the guy stalking two of the players and Coach Lamb called the cops and busted you.

I recommend you staying away from the program and focus on your relationship with your mom. You won’t be able to live in her basement anymore when she passes, and will be on here complaining about the attorney selling the house and kicking you to the curb.

Your original attempt at engaging me reeked of a red herring argument. I attempted to get you back on track.

Now your post makes inaccurate assumptions.


Let me try again.

I supported fHCGS and fHCGM thus not sure of your poorly crafted point of being like “KU fans” in the way they treated Mangino.

I don’t live in Wichita, so your feeble attempt to associate me with a VB stalker is negated (first I’ve heard of that issue by the way). Though I wonder if defamation charge could be brought forth. I bet there might be a way. Might want to back off that one.

I used to have season VB tickets and gave them away to my nieces as a manner to support the program.

One can support the athletic program while bringing up valid concerns and asking valid questions. In fact that is what a true fan should do if after 3-4 years there has been a consistent sub par performance.

I was correct about Butler though WuducWu (and perhaps you?) took the same stance as currently is being displayed with Lamb0.

The fact is YOU can’t explain what is going on to address my original post. That frustrates you because YOU nor WuducWu have any logical response nor insight except blind support to a coach that seems to have lost his way, but “gosh, he sure is nice with the young girls.”

I want the program to be successful. I want the student athletes to compete for championships and get NCAA bids. I’m just not sure Lamb0 has that ability any longer.

Perhaps you should hand the debate baton to another member of WuducWu’s G7. You’re simply not very good at this.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Your original attempt at engaging me reeked of a red herring argument. I attempted to get you back on track.

Now your post makes inaccurate assumptions.


Let me try again.

I supported fHCGS and fHCGM thus not sure of your poorly crafted point of being like “KU fans” in the way they treated Mangino.

I don’t live in Wichita, so your feeble attempt to associate me with a VB stalker is negated (first I’ve heard of that issue by the way). Though I wonder if defamation charge could be brought forth. I bet there might be a way. Might want to back off that one.

I used to have season VB tickets and gave them away to my nieces as a manner to support the program.

One can support the athletic program while bringing up valid concerns and asking valid questions. In fact that is what a true fan should do if after 3-4 years there has been a consistent sub par performance.

I was correct about Butler though WuducWu (and perhaps you?) took the same stance as currently is being displayed with Lamb0.

The fact is YOU can’t explain what is going on to address my original post. That frustrates you because YOU nor WuducWu have any logical response nor insight except blind support to a coach that seems to have lost his way, but “gosh, he sure is nice with the young girls.”

I want the program to be successful. I want the student athletes to compete for championships and get NCAA bids. I’m just not sure Lamb0 has that ability any longer.

Perhaps you should hand the debate baton to another member of WuducWu’s G7. You’re simply not very good at this.

I never tried to engage the original post as you have not tried to understand the other point of view that you can support the program, support the student athletes, and at the same time wonder if it is time for a change.

Unfortunately, you and others have a “with us or against us” attitude on anything concerning WSU Athletics. Either the team is winning to your satisfaction and everything is fine, or they aren’t and everything isn’t. The same thing happened with Butler.

My argument is, and has always, centered around the high character athletes we have been blessed with at Wichita State. It’s one of the things I miss about being closer. I still get the chance to meet many players and families on the road. It’s a great thing and wish more people did it.

You can believe what you want, but you including me in Doc’s group is a designation I am not worthy of. And the thought of Doc kissing your ring is the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

I am lucky enough to not have to know you. Although pretty sure I remember your mom. Always thought highly of her. Sad how her offspring is still on her tit.

[Veritas]

Misguided on issues though a better response.

Those that think Lamb0 is no longer effective does not mean we don’t care about the program. Quite the opposite. That’s akin to me thinking Butler was a terrible coach and trying to get WSU to drop the baseball program. I’m much more of a surgical strike strategist

You are following the same line of flawed thinking that discredited the doc during the Butler years, I can support the VB program and wish it success while still questioning if the program under his leadership has lost its way.

By the way, don’t you think “mom jokes” are a bit grade school unless you’re perhaps Adam Sandler or Chris Rock.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I recently had my first experience with VB recruiting. A good friends daughter will be playing D1. She has been committed, but recently was told that she might not make roster her Freshman year.

It was weird listening to her talk about it after watching others kids in our group commit to and play D1 Baseball as a Freshman, play D1 basketball, and play D1 football.

Volleyball is a different beast, and I think our success was boosted by local kids getting National attention. But most of all, by good coaches bringing in good kids who represented our school well.

Would not replace a single season worth of players in the past 15 years for the purpose of a banner. WSU has won, and will win, a lot of games in a lot of sports. But screw running a program like Memphis or Illinois State basketball.

Character matters, and our programs have been been stacked with high character young women and men. I question your character when all you care about is “winning”.

[Veritas]

I recently had my first experience with VB recruiting. A good friends daughter will be playing D1. She has been committed, but recently was told that she might not make roster her Freshman year.

It was weird listening to her talk about it after watching others kids in our group commit to and play D1 Baseball as a Freshman, play D1 basketball, and play D1 football.

Volleyball is a different beast, and I think our success was boosted by local kids getting National attention. But most of all, by good coaches bringing in good kids who represented our school well.

Would not replace a single season worth of players in the past 15 years for the purpose of a banner. WSU has won, and will win, a lot of games in a lot of sports. But screw running a program like Memphis or Illinois State basketball.

Character matters, and our programs have been been stacked with high character young women and men. I question your character when all you care about is “winning”.

We’re in agreement with the players. No push back there from me.
In a coach, we need both wins and character. At times, a challenging combination for a coach to possess, but can lead to dismissal if lacking in one or the other.

[WuDrWu]

We’re in agreement with the players. No push back there from me.

Literally the first intelligent utterance from you. Start thinking more like Downtown Shocker Brown and you'll be well on the road to recovery.


I was going to say that we all should stop responding to you, because your recent unbalanced rants, I believe, show you to be a pitiful individual, but even more so, probably handicapped in one way or another, and we shouldn't pick on the handicapped.

But your last comment shows the tiniest glimmer of hope. Keep trying!

[1972Shocker]

Coach Lamb probably deserves a little bit of slack based on his long-term record. He is 445-205 for a winning % of 68.5%. That includes a 19-39 start in his first two seasons. The academic side of the ledger is very good and as far as I know there have been no off-the-court scandals and embarrassments with Lambo.

That said the program has definitely struggled to maintain the program at a high level post-2017 (a/k/a post Emily-Abbie-Mikaela, et. al.) The move to the AAC and Covid certainly haven't made things any easier. Better competition and strained finances being the primary challenges. Nevertheless, the real problem has been just too many recruiting misses. A D-1 coach is going to have some of those along the line but they need to be minimized.

Has Lambo totally lost it? I doubt it, but the lack of stability in the lineup and the strategies being employed isn't helping IMO. A lot of that has to do with the recruiting misses as he seems to be searching and searching for answers but so far doesn't seem to be finding enough of them.

That said I am encouraged by the group attackers he has on the roster. Brylee Kelley, Sophia Rohling, Natalie Foster, and Lauren McMahon form a pretty intriguing core group. And they seem extremely high on Morgan Stout if they can get her healthy and keep her healthy. If Morgan Webber and maybe Kailin Newsome can become solid all-around contributors this is potentially a very good group. That said, a couple of things have to happen before these ladies can do their thing. We need a good serve receive and pass, and a good set not only in delivery but in the decision making as well. Whether that is going to come along this season remains to be seen. The fact that Lambo is carrying 4 setters tells me he isn't necessarily convinced that he definitely has a setter that he can turn the keys over to without worrying about them wrecking the car. My favorite all-time Shocker (Emily Hiebert) and her predecessors really spoiled us. Of course, bad passing will badly handicap a setter, regardless of how good they are, and I don't think our serve receive/passing game has been real good in recent seasons. If we can get the serve receive/passing and the setting fixed I think the Shocks can be very competitive this year. How that will be reflected in the win column is hard to say. This team is still pretty young and inexperienced. But at least I hope we see strong signs of a rejuvenated program this year.

We need to be careful what we wish for. No guarantee any replacement for Lambo won't take us backwards. That could very easily happen. It would be very difficult to replace a coach of a program that can draw 450 people to fund raising event during a pandemic. Whether or not that will last if the program continues to struggle remains to be seen. Hopefully, we don't get to find out.

[Veritas]

Literally the first intelligent utterance from you. Start thinking more like Downtown Shocker Brown and you'll be well on the road to recovery.


I was going to say that we all should stop responding to you, because your recent unbalanced rants, I believe, show you to be a pitiful individual, but even more so, probably handicapped in one way or another, and we shouldn't pick on the handicapped.

But your last comment shows the tiniest glimmer of hope. Keep trying!

I’m fair in my praise and critique for everyone. You just haven’t provided anything of use as indicated by your recent post.
Don’t be jealous of my acknowledgement of DSB, just try harder WuducWu. You’ll get there.

[Veritas]

Coach Lamb probably deserves a little bit of slack based on his long-term record. He is 445-205 for a winning % of 68.5%. That includes a 19-39 start in his first two seasons. The academic side of the ledger is very good and as far as I know there have been no off-the-court scandals and embarrassments with Lambo.

That said the program has definitely struggled to maintain the program at a high level post-2017 (a/k/a post Emily-Abbie-Mikaela, et. al.) The move to the AAC and Covid certainly haven't made things any easier. Better competition and strained finances being the primary challenges. Nevertheless, the real problem has been just too many recruiting misses. A D-1 coach is going to have some of those along the line but they need to be minimized.

Has Lambo totally lost it? I doubt it, but the lack of stability in the lineup and the strategies being employed isn't helping IMO. A lot of that has to do with the recruiting misses as he seems to be searching and searching for answers but so far doesn't seem to be finding enough of them.

That said I am encouraged by the group attackers he has on the roster. Brylee Kelley, Sophia Rohling, Natalie Foster, and Lauren McMahon from a pretty intriguing core group. And they seem extremely high on Morgan Stout if they can get her healthy and keep her healthy. If Morgan Webber and maybe Kailin Newsome can become solid all-around contributors this is potentially a very good group. That said, a couple of things have to happen before these ladies can do their thing. We need a good serve receive and pass, and a good set not only in delivery but in the decision making as well. Whether that is going to come along this season remains to be seen. The fact that Lambo is carrying 4 setters tells me he isn't necessarily convinced that he definitely has a setter that he can turn the keys over to without worry about them wrecking the car. My favorite all-time Shocker (Emily Hiebert) and her predecessors really spoiled us. Of course, bad passing will badly handicap a setter, regardless of how good they are, and I don't think our serve receive/passing game has been real good in recent seasons. If we can get the serve receive/passing and the setting fixed I think the Shocks can be very competitive this year. How that will be reflected in the win column is hard to say. This team is still pretty young and inexperienced. But at least I hope we see strong signs of a rejuvenated program this year.

We need to be careful what we wish for. No guarantee any replacement for Lambo won't take us backwards. That could very easily happen. It would be very difficult to replace a coach of a program that can draw 450 people to fund raising event during a pandemic. Whether or not that will last if the program continues to struggle remains to be seen. Hopefully, we don't get to find out.

Very fair and balanced information. Thank you for providing your insight. You’re definitely a great resource for information on the program.

[WuDrWu]

Coach Lamb probably deserves a little bit of slack based on his long-term record. He is 445-205 for a winning % of 68.5%. That includes a 19-39 start in his first two seasons. The academic side of the ledger is very good and as far as I know there have been no off-the-court scandals and embarrassments with Lambo.

That said the program has definitely struggled to maintain the program at a high level post-2017 (a/k/a post Emily-Abbie-Mikaela, et. al.) The move to the AAC and Covid certainly haven't made things any easier. Better competition and strained finances being the primary challenges. Nevertheless, the real problem has been just too many recruiting misses. A D-1 coach is going to have some of those along the line but they need to be minimized.

Has Lambo totally lost it? I doubt it, but the lack of stability in the lineup and the strategies being employed isn't helping IMO. A lot of that has to do with the recruiting misses as he seems to be searching and searching for answers but so far doesn't seem to be finding enough of them.

That said I am encouraged by the group attackers he has on the roster. Brylee Kelley, Sophia Rohling, Natalie Foster, and Lauren McMahon form a pretty intriguing core group. And they seem extremely high on Morgan Stout if they can get her healthy and keep her healthy. If Morgan Webber and maybe Kailin Newsome can become solid all-around contributors this is potentially a very good group. That said, a couple of things have to happen before these ladies can do their thing. We need a good serve receive and pass, and a good set not only in delivery but in the decision making as well. Whether that is going to come along this season remains to be seen. The fact that Lambo is carrying 4 setters tells me he isn't necessarily convinced that he definitely has a setter that he can turn the keys over to without worrying about them wrecking the car. My favorite all-time Shocker (Emily Hiebert) and her predecessors really spoiled us. Of course, bad passing will badly handicap a setter, regardless of how good they are, and I don't think our serve receive/passing game has been real good in recent seasons. If we can get the serve receive/passing and the setting fixed I think the Shocks can be very competitive this year. How that will be reflected in the win column is hard to say. This team is still pretty young and inexperienced. But at least I hope we see strong signs of a rejuvenated program this year.

We need to be careful what we wish for. No guarantee any replacement for Lambo won't take us backwards. That could very easily happen. It would be very difficult to replace a coach of a program that can draw 450 people to fund raising event during a pandemic. Whether or not that will last if the program continues to struggle remains to be seen. Hopefully, we don't get to find out.

Excellent post, as always, in every way, from one of the great supporters of Shocker volleyball, indeed, all Shocker athletics. Thank you sir!

[WuDrWu]

Good article from Paul about this weekend, but also touching on a point I've been making as well.

https://goshockers.com/news/2021/9/10/volleyball-rh-sophie-childs-doing-everything-right.aspx

From said article:

"We really worked on agility and endurance, and I think the combination of both of those things made me a lot stronger and in better shape," she said. "Last year, during the spring, I realized how much I liked lifting weights. When I went home, I really went hard."

Like with many freshmen, Lamb watched her grow into his expectations. Childs is a biology major who wants to attend dental school. Lamb sees her athletic goals rising to meet her academic standards. He compares her to former Shocker middle Jen Ray as an athlete who wasn't sure about a role in NCAA Division I volleyball before growing into an important one.

"Some girls just don't know where their lot is in their volleyball life," Lamb said. "You help them get past that and to another level and that's exciting. I'm seeing a competitive spirit in her come out. I think she has really high expectations for herself academically and I want to see her put athletics in the same spot."


Many of the young ladies see getting to WSU (or other schools) as the goal, not the starting line. It's more prevalent in women's sports. Sports are rarely the priority. Sometimes, once they get here, they aren't even A priority. It is a fact. Does this make our program different than others? No. I've never been one to say winning isn't important. It very much is important. But everything else is important too, and for many of these young ladies, those things are a lot more important than winning volleyball games.

One of my points is, when a coach has maybe 80-100% of his kids focused on athletics, I'm less likely to forgive bumps in the road or lack of on the court/field success. When a coach has maybe 10-40% focused on athletics, you have to be reasonable about expectations and look at the entire package.

[Veritas]

Good article from Paul about this weekend, but also touching on a point I've been making as well.

https://goshockers.com/news/2021/9/10/volleyball-rh-sophie-childs-doing-everything-right.aspx

From said article:

"We really worked on agility and endurance, and I think the combination of both of those things made me a lot stronger and in better shape," she said. "Last year, during the spring, I realized how much I liked lifting weights. When I went home, I really went hard."

Like with many freshmen, Lamb watched her grow into his expectations. Childs is a biology major who wants to attend dental school. Lamb sees her athletic goals rising to meet her academic standards. He compares her to former Shocker middle Jen Ray as an athlete who wasn't sure about a role in NCAA Division I volleyball before growing into an important one.

"Some girls just don't know where their lot is in their volleyball life," Lamb said. "You help them get past that and to another level and that's exciting. I'm seeing a competitive spirit in her come out. I think she has really high expectations for herself academically and I want to see her put athletics in the same spot."


Many of the young ladies see getting to WSU (or other schools) as the goal, not the starting line. It's more prevalent in women's sports. Sports are rarely the priority. Sometimes, once they get here, they aren't even A priority. It is a fact. Does this make our program different than others? No. I've never been one to say winning isn't important. It very much is important. But everything else is important too, and for many of these young ladies, those things are a lot more important than winning volleyball games.

One of my points is, when a coach has maybe 80-100% of his kids focused on athletics, I'm less likely to forgive bumps in the road or lack of on the court/field success. When a coach has maybe 10-40% focused on athletics, you have to be reasonable about expectations and look at the entire package.

So you’re ok with a coach that recruits or inspires only 10 - 40% of the athletes to focus on athletics and lose on the court? That’s what makes a good coach in your opinion and as long as they do well in the classroom, the program and coach gets a pass?

Do do you feel that way about men’s programs as well or only women’s?

[jimshocker]

Good article from Paul about this weekend, but also touching on a point I've been making as well.

https://goshockers.com/news/2021/9/1...ing-right.aspx

From said article:

"We really worked on agility and endurance, and I think the combination of both of those things made me a lot stronger and in better shape," she said. "Last year, during the spring, I realized how much I liked lifting weights. When I went home, I really went hard."

Like with many freshmen, Lamb watched her grow into his expectations. Childs is a biology major who wants to attend dental school. Lamb sees her athletic goals rising to meet her academic standards. He compares her to former Shocker middle Jen Ray as an athlete who wasn't sure about a role in NCAA Division I volleyball before growing into an important one.

"Some girls just don't know where their lot is in their volleyball life," Lamb said. "You help them get past that and to another level and that's exciting. I'm seeing a competitive spirit in her come out. I think she has really high expectations for herself academically and I want to see her put athletics in the same spot."


Many of the young ladies see getting to WSU (or other schools) as the goal, not the starting line. It's more prevalent in women's sports. Sports are rarely the priority. Sometimes, once they get here, they aren't even A priority. It is a fact. Does this make our program different than others? No. I've never been one to say winning isn't important. It very much is important. But everything else is important too, and for many of these young ladies, those things are a lot more important than winning volleyball games.

One of my points is, when a coach has maybe 80-100% of his kids focused on athletics, I'm less likely to forgive bumps in the road or lack of on the court/field success. When a coach has maybe 10-40% focused on athletics, you have to be reasonable about expectations and look at the entire package.

Another unfortunate excuse made for/by the Head WOMENS Volleyball Coach of Wichita State University. We are getting closer to the ELEPHANT in the room.

In this day and age, Girls/Young Women are very aware of what it takes to be a Division 1 ATHLETE. With Club sports, some of these kids have been putting in time equivalent to a part time job since the age of 12. If the Coaches at Wichita State are recruiting kids that are unaware of what it takes to play D1 sports, they are failing in THEIR JOB!

Treating the Women who come to Wichita State to PLAY Volleyball AND get a WSU Degree as if you are doing them a favor is part of the issue. It is the COACHES who owe these young women what they are being sold, before they arrive on campus. It is the COACHES JOB to fully and accurately let the kids know what they are getting into, before they arrive on campus. It is the COACES JOB to vet the athletes before they arrive in campus.

How do D1 MALES excel in Sports and Academics? How do D1 track athletes make it through their career knowing it's their academics that will end up paying them, not their athletic ability.

Slippery Slope.

If the players don't have the heart to commit to their SPORT and their Academics, why is the WSU Coaching Staff bringing them on campus?
If the players lose their love of the sport after arriving on campus, what is the WSU Coaching staffs role in that change of heart?

D1 Athletics are JOBS for MEN and WOMEN! D1 Athletes know this.

When we "look at the entire package", that package includes the Coaching Staff and how that coaching staff handles the players they bring on campus. It seems with WSU volleyball in particular, there is a thought that the Athletes need to know how to deal with the Coach. What role does the Coach have in knowing how to deal with the Athletes? In this case FEMALE athletes?

[Shockm]

Article on Lauren McMahon and her recruitment in Texas. Is she a sleeper?

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...254280953.html

[Veritas]

Happy to see the VB team performing so well.! If they maintain consistency and make the tournament, I might have to negate the zero from Lamb0’s name.