I don't see why WSU can't field a football team already.

[shocky]

Iowa State dropped baseball do to the cost. I know that K-State also considered this as well. It is hard to compare what they (BCS) schools are spending on any one sport. I thought that the Mid-Majority broke down men's basketball. I think K-State spent about 2 million on basketball total and we spent over a million. I know this is not recruiting, but I think that it shows that we are putting (BCS) money in to our men basketball and possibly non-revenue sports as well. I would not want that to be put at risk for a football team, however a good plan could solve this. Also lots and lots of money. We also have to keep in mind that BCS members get a ton of money that they can re-invest into they athletic budgets from TV contracts and bowl tie ins. We would not have that and would need to raise money that BCS member get handed to them just to compete. It can be done, just more difficult.

[rrshock]

Iowa State dropped baseball do to the cost. I know that K-State also considered this as well. It is hard to compare what they (BCS) schools are spending on any one sport. I thought that the Mid-Majority broke down men's basketball. I think K-State spent about 2 million on basketball total and we spent over a million. I know this is not recruiting, but I think that it shows that we are putting (BCS) money in to our men basketball and possibly non-revenue sports as well. I would not want that to be put at risk for a football team, however a good plan could solve this. Also lots and lots of money. We also have to keep in mind that BCS members get a ton of money that they can re-invest into they athletic budgets from TV contracts and bowl tie ins. We would not have that and would need to raise money that BCS member get handed to them just to compete. It can be done, just more difficult.

The TV revenues are quite large for the BCS schools. Look at the contracts that networks pay to get games. That is all spread out. WSU gets some money off of men's basketball television contracts, namely it is spread out over all NCAA member institutions. Then there is the extra money from the NCAA tourney as well.

We also can't compare what BCS football would cost, because WSU wouldn't be playing BCS football. 1-AA football doesn't cost as much to have, so comparing WSU to ISU is ridiculous.

[shocky]

We would need to start at the D1AA level, but that would be huge financial drain as well. Most D1AA programs loose around $800,000 per year. This includes the top tier programs such as UNI, YSU and SIU. The cost is less, but the revenue is minimal. We have to keep this in mind when starting a program. It will not be just the start-up costs, but the long term losses that can kill a program. Again, a good plan and proper fund raising could resolve these issues and get WSU back to playing football once more. I would like us to get to a D1A status at some point in the future.

[SpanglerFan316]

I realize that. But unless we know how much ISU spends in football recruiting (as well as all other sports), we have no way to know how any of that money is allocated.

I guess my point is that since ISU has football, but not baseball, and are in a totally different universe revenue-wise, the comparison is like apples to cheese.

We may be talking at cross purposes. I am addressing the question about the size of the WSU budget compared with other MVC schools. If we eliminated the $130K recruiting budget, we would still be spending over $1M more than MSU. My point is that our large budget is not due to recruiting.

I'm not sure where you are coming from (in terms of this thread).

[SpanglerFan316]

Iowa State dropped baseball do to the cost. I know that K-State also considered this as well. It is hard to compare what they (BCS) schools are spending on any one sport. I thought that the Mid-Majority broke down men's basketball. I think K-State spent about 2 million on basketball total and we spent over a million. I know this is not recruiting, but I think that it shows that we are putting (BCS) money in to our men basketball and possibly non-revenue sports as well. I would not want that to be put at risk for a football team, however a good plan could solve this. Also lots and lots of money. We also have to keep in mind that BCS members get a ton of money that they can re-invest into they athletic budgets from TV contracts and bowl tie ins. We would not have that and would need to raise money that BCS member get handed to them just to compete. It can be done, just more difficult.

The TV revenues are quite large for the BCS schools. Look at the contracts that networks pay to get games. That is all spread out. WSU gets some money off of men's basketball television contracts, namely it is spread out over all NCAA member institutions. Then there is the extra money from the NCAA tourney as well.

We also can't compare what BCS football would cost, because WSU wouldn't be playing BCS football. 1-AA football doesn't cost as much to have, so comparing WSU to ISU is ridiculous.

D1-AA football is not that much cheaper than D1-A football.
"The NCAA allows each division 1A college football program 85 scholarships and each division 1AA college 63 athletic scholarships. In division 2 there are 36 Scholarships."

http://www.collegesportsscholarships.com/football.htm

[RoyalShock]

"I'd assume the recruiting budget for baseball is pretty decent as well."
Actually, NO!! Compare WSU and ISU.

I took from that you were addressing baseball recruiting, which I found odd since ISU does not have baseball.

[SpanglerFan316]

"I'd assume the recruiting budget for baseball is pretty decent as well."
Actually, NO!! Compare WSU and ISU.

I took from that you were addressing baseball recruiting, which I found odd since ISU does not have baseball.

I doubt if we recruit baseball much at all. People from around the world (e.g. Canada, South America, Asia) come to WSU for our bowling program. We don't (spend money to) recruit bowling (to the best of my knowledge); people come here and try to make the bowling team. I think baseball may be similar; we probably have more really good players trying to become WSU baseball players than we need. The only recruiting we may need is for Gene, Brent, etc. to travel to watch players in games. In basketball, we need to "beg" top players to come here. In baseball (and bowling), top players are asking us if they can come here. It's a supply and demand issue. (This is all IMHO; it's just my guess and might be wrong.)

[SpanglerFan316]

"I'd assume the recruiting budget for baseball is pretty decent as well."
Actually, NO!! Compare WSU and ISU.

I took from that you were addressing baseball recruiting, which I found odd since ISU does not have baseball.

I was commenting on a different part of SubGod22's post. Baseball was not the topic in question; the topic was the size of the athletic budget and the possibility that recruiting was a significant part of the budget.

I don't know how it all breaks down but we spend a lot of money on recruiting

[CharlieHog]

"I'd assume the recruiting budget for baseball is pretty decent as well."
Actually, NO!! Compare WSU and ISU.

I took from that you were addressing baseball recruiting, which I found odd since ISU does not have baseball.

I doubt if we recruit baseball much at all. People from around the world (e.g. Canada, South America, Asia) come to WSU for our bowling program. We don't (spend money to) recruit bowling (to the best of my knowledge); people come here and try to make the bowling team. I think baseball may be similar; we probably have more really good players trying to become WSU baseball players than we need. The only recruiting we may need is for Gene, Brent, etc. to travel to watch players in games. In basketball, we need to "beg" top players to come here. In baseball (and bowling), top players are asking us if they can come here. It's a supply and demand issue. (This is all IMHO; it's just my guess and might be wrong.)

No offense, BUT....

Wichita State has a great baseball program but you guys are in no position to SELECT and not recruit. You benefit from being in an amazing recruiting area (and having the other two in-state teams be sorry in baseball).

I'm sure the recruiting budget is low for that reason. Your coaches don't have to travel very far to find good players for the most part.

[SpanglerFan316]

"I'd assume the recruiting budget for baseball is pretty decent as well."
Actually, NO!! Compare WSU and ISU.

I took from that you were addressing baseball recruiting, which I found odd since ISU does not have baseball.

I doubt if we recruit baseball much at all. People from around the world (e.g. Canada, South America, Asia) come to WSU for our bowling program. We don't (spend money to) recruit bowling (to the best of my knowledge); people come here and try to make the bowling team. I think baseball may be similar; we probably have more really good players trying to become WSU baseball players than we need. The only recruiting we may need is for Gene, Brent, etc. to travel to watch players in games. In basketball, we need to "beg" top players to come here. In baseball (and bowling), top players are asking us if they can come here. It's a supply and demand issue. (This is all IMHO; it's just my guess and might be wrong.)

No offense, BUT....

Wichita State has a great baseball program but you guys are in no position to SELECT and not recruit. You benefit from being in an amazing recruiting area (and having the other two in-state teams be sorry in baseball).

I'm sure the recruiting budget is low for that reason. Your coaches don't have to travel very far to find good players for the most part.

The bowling program does select rather than recruit; winning the most bowling titles in the country makes this possible.

The baseball program is closer to "selecting" than "recruiting" in Gene's "recruiting area" IMHO. If he wanted a player from California, then Gene would have to recruit, probably hard. If baseball scholarships were 100% scholarships, things might change but if you are a Kansas resident or a resident of a neighboring state that has a sweet tuition agreement with Kansas, would you rather pay low tuition and go to KU, KSU, MSU, MU, Creighton, Nebraska, etc. or to WSU? If your parents are rich and tuition doesn't matter at all, then who knows?

[CharlieHog]

The baseball program is closer to "selecting" than "recruiting" in Gene's "recruiting area" IMHO. If he wanted a player from California, then Gene would have to recruit, probably hard. If baseball scholarships were 100% scholarships, things might change but if you are a Kansas resident or a resident of a neighboring state that has a sweet tuition agreement with Kansas, would you rather pay low tuition and go to KU, KSU, MSU, MU, Creighton, Nebraska, etc. or to WSU? If your parents are rich and tuition doesn't matter at all, then who knows?

First, those are not the only schools that recruit Kansas and neighboring states. WSU competes with Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Oral Roberts too for recruits. The midwest produces a lot of baseball talent, and everybody that recruits the area gets good players, but to act like WSU gets their pick just isn't true.

[SpanglerFan316]

The baseball program is closer to "selecting" than "recruiting" in Gene's "recruiting area" IMHO. If he wanted a player from California, then Gene would have to recruit, probably hard. If baseball scholarships were 100% scholarships, things might change but if you are a Kansas resident or a resident of a neighboring state that has a sweet tuition agreement with Kansas, would you rather pay low tuition and go to KU, KSU, MSU, MU, Creighton, Nebraska, etc. or to WSU? If your parents are rich and tuition doesn't matter at all, then who knows?

First, those are not the only schools that recruit Kansas and neighboring states. WSU competes with Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Oral Roberts too for recruits. The midwest produces a lot of baseball talent, and everybody that recruits the area gets good players, but to act like WSU gets their pick just isn't true.

:lol: Ok, maybe I am being a bit frolicsome and WSU may not get their pick of every good player in the midwest. However WSU seems to obtain very good players, some of whom get picked in early rounds of the MLB draft, and to replace players who signed with other excellent players.

Scott Limbocker seems to be the only player from Kansas on the Hogs roster. WSU has 13 players from Kansas. Which school recruits Kansas better?

Arkansas has three Oklahoma players on its roster (Andy Wilkins, Houston Slemp and Dallas Keuchel) while WSU has nine Oklahoma players on its roster.

Arkansas has 11 players from Arkansas while WSU has one (Khol Nanney). Arkansas has 13 Texas players on its roster while WSU has none.

It seems to me that the Hogs recruit Arkansas and Texas well and WSU recruits Kansas and Oklahoma well. WSU has 10 players on its roster who are not from Kansas or Oklahoma. Arkansas has 16 players who are not from Arkansas or Texas. My guess is that Arkansas has a pretty good shot at signing a top high school player in Arkansas and WSU has a pretty good shot at signing a top high school player in Kansas. Every player needs to be "recruited" to some extent but the best baseball school in a midwestern state has a good chance of signing the top baseball players in its state.

[SpanglerFan316]

Charlie: Just for fun (and to give you a (friendly) hard time), I thought I'd add this post.

Fayetteville, Arkansas (Host: Arkansas)
Baum Stadium at George Cole Field (6,113)
=========================================

Friday, June 1
--------------

Game 1 - (3) Oklahoma St 6, (2) Creighton 4
Game 2 - (1) Arkansas 9, (4) Albany 0

Saturday, June 2
----------------

Game 3 - (2) Creighton 21, (4) Albany 11
(Albany eliminated)
Game 4 - (3) Oklahoma St 14, (1) Arkansas 3

Sunday, June 3
--------------

Game 5 - (1) Arkansas 6, (2) Creighton 0
(Creighton eliminated)
Game 6 - (3) Oklahoma St 7, (1) Arkansas 6
(Arkansas eliminated)

OKLAHOMA ST WINS FAYETTEVILLE REGIONAL


Wichita, Kansas (Host: Wichita St)
Eck Stadium (7,851)
==================================

Friday, June 1
--------------

Game 1 - (2) Arizona 4, (3) Oral Roberts 3
Game 2 - (4) New Orleans 7, (1) Wichita St 6

Saturday, June 2
----------------

Game 3 - (1) Wichita St 11, (3) Oral Roberts 4
(Oral Roberts eliminated)
Game 4 - (2) Arizona 9, (4) New Orleans 8

Sunday, June 3
--------------

Game 5 - (1) Wichita St 7, (4) New Orleans 3
(New Orleans eliminated)
Game 6 - (1) Wichita St 4, (2) Arizona 3

Monday, June 4
--------------

Game 7 - (1) Wichita St 3, (2) Arizona 0

WICHITA ST WINS WICHITA REGIONAL


;-)

[CharlieHog]

but the best baseball school in a midwestern state has a good chance of signing the top baseball players in its state.

uh, exactly. Which is why your recruiting budget for baseball can be fairly limited. WSU is in the middle of a very good recruiting area.

[SpanglerFan316]

but the best baseball school in a midwestern state has a good chance of signing the top baseball players in its state.

uh, exactly. Which is why your recruiting budget for baseball can be fairly limited. WSU is in the middle of a very good recruiting area.

Getting back to the "SELECT" versus "recruit" discussion, it seems as though you are agreeing with me.