Coach Marshall Advisory Committee

[shoxlax]

There isn't a personal vendetta, it's a matter of running the offense and set plays. Once you show you can do this, you get freedom to do a little of your own thing. Tyrone is a bright kid, but unless you are coached to value each possession before you get here there is a learning curve. He has amazing quickness reflexes but he could've benefitted from a redshirt year to really master the offense.

Coach has said in the past he's played guys that have driven him nuts in order to win, personal or not. He hates it but is so competitive that realizes sometimes it is an unwelcome necessity.

Your points are well thought out and most are not debatable. It's all about trust and learning the system before getting latitude to deviate.

[ShockTalk]

Here's my take on Taylor. He was a true freshman, expected to get a few back up minutes to FVV, and was thrown into the fire when Fred was injured, at the toughest position to learn on the court. If you look at his stats, other than not knocking down shots, they were pretty good. His defense looked pretty respectable for a freshman. This kid has knocked down shots his whole life. I do believe adjusting to the shooting background of a big arena takes time. Anyone who's ever played in a large arena for the first time will tell you that it is an adjustment, especially in terms of depth perception. His shot will come around, but only with playing time.

As far as shooting a lot, I can't say I've seen him take many bad shots. He is so quick and gets open looks with such ease, his shots are usually open shots. What I suspect bothers Marshall is the fact that a lot of those shots come early in the shot clock. When a coach builds a team around ball movement, and wearing down defenses, sometimes they don't necessarily consider every open shot a good shot. I also have to believe Marshall has some personal vendetta against Taylor. Maybe it is because of the losses with him in there while FVV was injured. How else can you explain his not getting a minutes on team that often struggles to score? It's not like Frankamp and EW are shooting lights out or putting up impressive numbers in other aspects of the game. You won't convince me Taylor couldn't be, overall, more productive than some of the guys getting minutes.

I still believe TT is going to be a star somewhere, maybe not at WSU, but when he gets on the court his athleticism is unmistakable. It's like watching one player on fast forward and everyone else at regular speed. As far as basketball IQ, have you heard the kid speak? I don't think basketball IQ is his problem at all. I just think maybe his style of play isn't a great fit with Marshall's system. I do know this. I would love to see him get playing time with FVV on the floor with him. The two point guard offense has been very effective at KU this season. Also, he's the one guard that hasn't really had the benefit of playing with FVV (a guy who makes others better).

If one looks at his and others stats, they would find that Taylor has good or better 3pt % than three of our players who shot the 2nd, 5th, and 6th most 3s totaling 250 shots. In fact, if you subtracted his 3s from the USC and Alabama games when he got thrown into the fire, he was 10-22 or 45.5%. Now his shots inside the arc are another thing.

[Ol skool]

I guess my question is why do we recruit scorers and try to convert to a point guard. Guys who play point in high school just to keep the ball in their hands. Not because they are good at what a point guard should actually be good at. I know we trust 3G and all that. But it's still a question that I have.

[jdshock]

I guess my question is why do we recruit scorers and try to convert to a point guard. Guys who play point in high school just to keep the ball in their hands. Not because they are good at what a point guard should actually be good at. I know we trust 3G and all that. But it's still a question that I have.

HCGM may not be perfect, but his development of point guards has been near perfect in his tenure at WSU.

[Ol skool]

HCGM may not be perfect, but his development of point guards has been near perfect in his tenure at WSU.

I could be wrong but wasn't most of the ones who panned out were true point guards? Enlighten me.

[Aargh]

I could be wrong but wasn't most of the ones who panned out were true point guards? Enlighten me.

All but one were JuCos with a proven track record of playing PG. I think all the JuCo guys were JuCo AA's. Those PG's didn't really need much development.

[pie n eye]

I always thought Clevin, Joe, Malcom came in as score first guys who developed their PG skills. They could all shoot the ball, Clevin was probably the best although Ragland made like 50% from three his senior year.

[tempshock]

There isn't a personal vendetta, it's a matter of running the offense and set plays. Once you show you can do this, you get freedom to do a little of your own thing. Tyrone is a bright kid, but unless you are coached to value each possession before you get here there is a learning curve. He has amazing quickness reflexes but he could've benefitted from a redshirt year to really master the offense.

Coach has said in the past he's played guys that have driven him nuts in order to win, personal or not. He hates it but is so competitive that realizes sometimes it is an unwelcome necessity.

Your points are well thought out and most are not debatable. It's all about trust and learning the system before getting latitude to deviate.

I don't disagree. Again, you're talking about a true Freshman thrown into the fire at the toughest position...the point. The only way he's going to get better is to play him. I believe Marshall would have been well served to let him play the two with Fred at the 1 and Ron at the 3. Take some pressure off of him. This team is starving for another scorer, especially one that can create his own shot.

[Ol skool]

All but one were JuCos with a proven track record of playing PG. I think all the JuCo guys were JuCo AA's. Those PG's didn't really need much development.

That was my assessment as well.

[WUpigsooie]

What concerns me about TT is: per kenpom he has by far the worst ORtg on the team at 80.8 (Rauno is next lowest at 93.3), AND he uses the highest % of possessions when he is on the floor at 27.3 (Anton is next with 26.3). That is not a recipe for success at PG. Do I think he could learn? Absolutely. Do I think that learning curve is fast enough for him to be a viable PG for a good team next year? questionable at best.

The kid obviously has all kinds of physical tools, no questions there. Has to fix himself between the ears. Lets start with not taking any more feet-on-the-3-pt-line 2s.

[ShockdaWorld]

What concerns me about TT is: per kenpom he has by far the worst ORtg on the team at 80.8 (Rauno is next lowest at 93.3), AND he uses the highest % of possessions when he is on the floor at 27.3 (Anton is next with 26.3). That is not a recipe for success at PG. Do I think he could learn? Absolutely. Do I think that learning curve is fast enough for him to be a viable PG for a good team next year? questionable at best.

The kid obviously has all kinds of physical tools, no questions there. Has to fix himself between the ears. Lets start with not taking any more feet-on-the-3-pt-line 2s.

For the most part I agree with what you are saying. I would temper it a little with the thought that since FVV got healthy, TT hasn't exactly been put in the most opportune situations as far as the guys around him being able contribute a whole lot on a regular basis.

[Ricardo del Rio]

When I began this thread as a hoot, I had no idea that it would extend to 70 posts.

I still have not looked at the UNI box score. I am afraid my eyes will bleed.

[molly jabali]

When I began this thread as a hoot, I had no idea that it would extend to 70 posts.

I still have not looked at the UNI box score. I am afraid my eyes will bleed.

Frankly I think it speaks positive volumes as to the investedness of Shocker fans....

"investedness"...not a real word, but I'm trying!:)

[OregonShocker]

Frankly I think it speaks positive volumes as to the investedness of Shocker fans....

"investedness"...not a real word, but I'm trying!:)

"I know words...I have the best words." Trump

[Ol skool]

Here's my take on Taylor. He was a true freshman, expected to get a few back up minutes to FVV, and was thrown into the fire when Fred was injured, at the toughest position to learn on the court. If you look at his stats, other than not knocking down shots, they were pretty good. His defense looked pretty respectable for a freshman. This kid has knocked down shots his whole life. I do believe adjusting to the shooting background of a big arena takes time. Anyone who's ever played in a large arena for the first time will tell you that it is an adjustment, especially in terms of depth perception. His shot will come around, but only with playing time.

As far as shooting a lot, I can't say I've seen him take many bad shots. He is so quick and gets open looks with such ease, his shots are usually open shots. What I suspect bothers Marshall is the fact that a lot of those shots come early in the shot clock. When a coach builds a team around ball movement, and wearing down defenses, sometimes they don't necessarily consider every open shot a good shot. I also have to believe Marshall has some personal vendetta against Taylor. Maybe it is because of the losses with him in there while FVV was injured. How else can you explain his not getting a minutes on team that often struggles to score? It's not like Frankamp and EW are shooting lights out or putting up impressive numbers in other aspects of the game. You won't convince me Taylor couldn't be, overall, more productive than some of the guys getting minutes.

I still believe TT is going to be a star somewhere, maybe not at WSU, but when he gets on the court his athleticism is unmistakable. It's like watching one player on fast forward and everyone else at regular speed. As far as basketball IQ, have you heard the kid speak? I don't think basketball IQ is his problem at all. I just think maybe his style of play isn't a great fit with Marshall's system. I do know this. I would love to see him get playing time with FVV on the floor with him. The two point guard offense has been very effective at KU this season. Also, he's the one guard that hasn't really had the benefit of playing with FVV (a guy who makes others better).

Early in the season Marshall said he needed Ty to be a pg said he had enough shooting guards. This may not bode well for Ty as a Shocker. I hope I'm wrong. I've become a Ty fan. If it turns out that he doesn't stick here. I hope wherever he goes he finds a spot where his natural talents can be utilized. With Shamet and Connir both deemed combo guards and seems more highly regarded than Ty I'm not sure it's going to work out here. We haven't seen much of any of these players at the point. Shamet injured early and Connor as much as he played still saw very little point guard duty. If that is his hoped for position next season I think we would him get more minutes at the pg this season.
Some have alluded to the team with and without Fred this season. Well next season is going to be without only. We have no one this season who look like Fred his freshman year. I'm sure Marshall will figure it out. But not without growing pains. I guess the question is how long will it take?