Evansville game thread

[Kung Wu]

I'll also throw this in ... Marty Simmons has demonstrated Superbowl mentality his entire coaching career. He schedules weak ass teams that he doesn't have to scout so that he can spend 2/3 of the season scouting WSU and _maybe_ two other programs, and the remaining 1/3 of the time scouting the rest. There is no doubt that Eville, with their roster chock-full of upperclassmen (11!), have been scouting/practicing and tweaking specifically for that game and the return game since practices began. That definitely had to play into Ron and Fred's frustrations last night.

[shockerfanmas]

The officiating was good last night for the most part, as it always is when Higgy's in charge.


That being said, here's a problem. Officials managing the game. John passed on Giddy's 5th when Fred went to the cup near the end of the game.

He gave the ball to WSU instead of the foul. Fred jumped into Giddy...which he had the right to do because Giddy jumped into him (I initially thought he went straight up but he didn't and clearly fouled Fred).

Now, John manages the situation....no foul on a borderline 50/50 call, ball to WSU. Ooops...go to the monitor. Over rule the managing....Aces ball. You could tell John wasn't all that happy.

What was bad was the other end of the court on the very next possession. Brown erases DJ and gets the foul...SERIOUSLY? Bert blew that HUGE. Maybe there was a TOUCH of body, but it didn't affect the shot and Brown had all ball, maybe 2 feet out of DJ's hand.

Managing the game doesn't necessarily work in that case, because you can only check who it went out of bounds on in the last...2 minutes is it? I'm not sure. But I think you have to officiate differently now in those last couple of minutes. Don't pass on a call if you think you can make it right with the OOB call.

Spot on, the officiating was solid until the last few minutes. At every level, you can get away with passing on a marginal foul by giving the ball back to the team that got fouled. Most coaches understand this, and if they don't, usually asking them if they want the other team to get the ball OOB or giving a 5th foul to their star player, that usually gets them to shut up. However, with the rules about checking on OOB calls in the last 2 minutes of the game, that strategy doesn't work anymore. That's a foul that needed to be called, 5th foul or not. I didn't think the contact was as bad as some are saying it was, but the defender definitely initiated the contacted.

Higgins is a top notch official, there's a reason he works will into March or even into April every season. The hatred he gets from all fans is ridiculous. People can disagree with me all they want, but he has to be one of the top 5 NCAA basketball officials right now. And you're right, it killed him to have to give that ball to Evansville. He was disgusted, you could tell.

[shockerfanmas]

I agree with the majority of your post. Higgins rewarded us with the ball instead of calling the foul. But I couldn't disagree more with the fact that it was a borderline 50/50 call.

It wasn't borderline, it was a foul. I can guarantee if it was any other player, or if the big man didn't have 4 fouls, it would have been a foul. Right or wrong, that's just how officiating works sometimes. You try your best to keep your star players in the game, but there was just way too much contact on that one.

[Cdizzle]

It wasn't borderline, it was a foul. I can guarantee if it was any other player, or if the big man didn't have 4 fouls, it would have been a foul. Right or wrong, that's just how officiating works sometimes. You try your best to keep your star players in the game, but there was just way too much contact on that one.

Seems like the refs job is to call the rules, not keep star players in the game. But, I'm not a ref, so what do I know.

[shockerfanmas]

Seems like the refs job is to call the rules, not keep star players in the game. But, I'm not a ref, so what do I know.

I see people still can't let stuff go. Pretty pathetic really. I've moved on and admitted my errors. How about you move on too and get over yourself? Thanks and happy new year sir.

[ShockdaWorld]

That's what fuels the frustration of fans. If It's a foul early In the game...If It's a foul on ZB on the other end...if it's going to be a foul in the game you officiate tomorrow night, it SHOULD be a foul now. Officials are paid to make the right call as consistently as they possibly can, not just when it's not going to make a difference in the game or not take out a "star" player. A travel is a travel. A double dribble is a double dribble. A foul is a foul. The inconsistency is what is so frustrating. It's bad enough that the whistle changes from game to game, but for it to change from possession to possession is not ok. The referees are there to make the right calls, which I know they are human, and are allowed to make mistakes, but to TRY to keep the "star player" in the game is NOT what they're paid to do. 5 fouls on EW is ok because he's a role player, but not ok on EM, because he's a star. nah

[shockerfanmas]

That's what fuels the frustration of fans. If It's a foul early In the game...If It's a foul on ZB on the other end...if it's going to be a foul in the game you officiate tomorrow night, it SHOULD be a foul now. Officials are paid to make the right call as consistently as they possibly can, not just when it's not going to make a difference in the game or not take out a "star" player. A travel is a travel. A double dribble is a double dribble. A foul is a foul. The inconsistency is what is so frustrating. It's bad enough that the whistle changes from game to game, but for it to change from possession to possession is not ok. The referees are there to make the right calls, which I know they are human, and are allowed to make mistakes, but to TRY to keep the "star player" in the game is NOT what they're paid to do. 5 fouls on EW is ok because he's a role player, but not ok on EM, because he's a star. nah

I get what you're saying, 100%. I never said I agreed with the philosophy. Let me give you an example from a different sport. In baseball, I'm sure you know what is meant by a bang bang play. The officiating philosophy on a bang bang play is, if a fielder makes a spectacular play, diving or going deep in the hole, 1st baseman makes a big stretch, maybe the runners foot hits the bag a half second before the 1st baseman has the ball in his glove, the philosophy is to call the guy out. It's been that way for decades. I would prefer to call the guy safe because he beat the throw. If I call him safe, I'm getting my arse ripped by partners and assignors alike.

Does that make sense at all to you? Hey, I'm with ya. Safe is safe, out is out, foul is a foul, travel is travel. But.. That's not the philosophy on every situation. Don't kill the messenger for calling it the way they are supposed to based on certain philosophy.

[newshock1234]

I was wanting to rewatch the game on ESPN3 but I tried to search it on their site and I cannot find it. Anybody else having issues?

[Cdizzle]

Reading around the league....

WSU sure is the most beatable-looking team to ever go 38-1(.974) in 2+ seasons in the league.

[ShockdaWorld]

I get what you're saying, 100%. I never said I agreed with the philosophy. Let me give you an example from a different sport. In baseball, I'm sure you know what is meant by a bang bang play. The officiating philosophy on a bang bang play is, if a fielder makes a spectacular play, diving or going deep in the hole, 1st baseman makes a big stretch, maybe the runners foot hits the bag a half second before the 1st baseman has the ball in his glove, the philosophy is to call the guy out. It's been that way for decades. I would prefer to call the guy safe because he beat the throw. If I call him safe, I'm getting my arse ripped by partners and assignors alike.

Does that make sense at all to you? Hey, I'm with ya. Safe is safe, out is out, foul is a foul, travel is travel. But.. That's not the philosophy on every situation. Don't kill the messenger for calling it the way they are supposed to based on certain philosophy.

It wasn't intended as a "kill the messenger" post. I agree with what you said about them calling it that way. I just think it's dead wrong. What is it ShockRef has in his sig? Something like "Make the right call, every time."

[shockerfanmas]

That's what fuels the frustration of fans. If It's a foul early In the game...If It's a foul on ZB on the other end...if it's going to be a foul in the game you officiate tomorrow night, it SHOULD be a foul now. Officials are paid to make the right call as consistently as they possibly can, not just when it's not going to make a difference in the game or not take out a "star" player. A travel is a travel. A double dribble is a double dribble. A foul is a foul. The inconsistency is what is so frustrating. It's bad enough that the whistle changes from game to game, but for it to change from possession to possession is not ok. The referees are there to make the right calls, which I know they are human, and are allowed to make mistakes, but to TRY to keep the "star player" in the game is NOT what they're paid to do. 5 fouls on EW is ok because he's a role player, but not ok on EM, because he's a star. nah

For the record, I was a fan long before I was an official, so I get your frustration. I was wrong to say fans are clueless idiots, that was said in major frustration. Unfortunately, some posters will never let that go. I will say that when I became an official, I started to see things in a different light, if that makes sense

[shockerfanmas]

It wasn't intended as a "kill the messenger" post. I agree with what you said about them calling it that way. I just think it's dead wrong. What is it ShockRef has in his sig? Something like "Make the right call, every time."

We are in agreement then, I don't care for some of the philosophies either but if I want to continue officiating, I have to apply those philosophies. I can't take the safe is safe, out is out, foul is foul approach. Believe me if I could I would

[Singeril]

I get what you're saying, 100%. I never said I agreed with the philosophy. Let me give you an example from a different sport. In baseball, I'm sure you know what is meant by a bang bang play. The officiating philosophy on a bang bang play is, if a fielder makes a spectacular play, diving or going deep in the hole, 1st baseman makes a big stretch, maybe the runners foot hits the bag a half second before the 1st baseman has the ball in his glove, the philosophy is to call the guy out. It's been that way for decades. I would prefer to call the guy safe because he beat the throw. If I call him safe, I'm getting my arse ripped by partners and assignors alike.

Does that make sense at all to you? Hey, I'm with ya. Safe is safe, out is out, foul is a foul, travel is travel. But.. That's not the philosophy on every situation. Don't kill the messenger for calling it the way they are supposed to based on certain philosophy.

Sorry, I don't care if it's a "philosophy" or not. If the ump knew the runner was safe, he should call him safe. If he knew he was out, call him out. If a ref sees something as traveling, call traveling. This "playing the odds" and hoping they all "even out" is bogus. If you're intentionally inconsistent in order to hope for consistency, you're doing the wrong job. That's not a personal attack--it's just simple logic.

[jdshock]

I was wanting to rewatch the game on ESPN3 but I tried to search it on their site and I cannot find it. Anybody else having issues?

Without a doubt, the replay was on there this morning because I watched it. It appears to be gone right now. Hopefully they'll re-post it later.

[Cdizzle]

Suddenly, everything makes so much sense.