Landry Shamet Injured

[Keyser Soze]

I have no idea if Landry will face an early entry decision like Ron and Fred did this last year, but that's another consideration in taking full advantage of our upside this year...not too mention how the graduated senior transfer option is impacting redshirting decisions.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Re-injury.

[jdshock]

The NCAA has granted medical hardship redshirts and sixth year waivers to players who have taken a redshirt previously, even if that redshirt was not medical in nature. For example, http://www.mndaily.com/2012/03/26/nc...kwe-sixth-year. It is not "unprecedented."

It is, however, unusual enough that HCGM certainly took it into consideration when deciding whether Baker should play or not.

[jdshock]

Not the same situation. Ron already had a red shirt year.

As @Steeleshocker: said, even if it were identical, was it a waste to bring Ron back? Ron helped us get to a Final Four, and we wouldn't have gotten there without him. If Landry could do the same, it would absolutely be worth burning a year of eligibility for only a handful of games.

[ROOT ANGRY!]

Re-injury.

care to clarify this, ricardo?
(that is to say, i hope you're not reporting that landry has suffered a setback)

[Keyser Soze]

The NCAA has granted medical hardship redshirts and sixth year waivers to players who have taken a redshirt previously, even if that redshirt was not medical in nature. For example, http://www.mndaily.com/2012/03/26/nc...kwe-sixth-year. It is not "unprecedented."

It is, however, unusual enough that HCGM certainly took it into consideration when deciding whether Baker should play or not.

That situation is obviously very unusual and truly not a typical elective redshirt since neither the player nor basketball staff had any control over it. I'm guessing the case against him was weak and the NCAA actually let sanity prevail for a rare occasion. Using the assumptiont that you will never be granted a medical after an elective is the prudent rule to follow.

"Mbakwe will receive a medical hardship waiver — commonly known as a medical redshirt — for his 2011-12 season. He also received a redshirt for his 2009-10 season, which athletics director Joel Maturi forced him to sit out amid pending aggravated battery charges, which were later dropped."

[jdshock]

That situation is obviously very unusual and truly not a typical elective redshirt since neither the player nor basketball staff had any control over it. I'm guessing the case against him was weak and the NCAA actually let sanity prevail for a rare occasion. Using the assumptiont that you will never be granted a medical after an elective is the prudent rule to follow.

"Mbakwe will receive a medical hardship waiver — commonly known as a medical redshirt — for his 2011-12 season. He also received a redshirt for his 2009-10 season, which athletics director Joel Maturi forced him to sit out amid pending aggravated battery charges, which were later dropped."

It's absolutely an elective redshirt. It is not an academic or medical reason that caused the player to sit out. From the article:

Waivers are typically awarded when an athlete sits out one or more seasons because of circumstances beyond his or her control or the control of the institution, which Mbakwe’s 2009-10 redshirt season was not.

I said HCGM took it into consideration when he chose to let Baker play.

[WSUwatcher]

care to clarify this, ricardo?
(that is to say, i hope you're not reporting that landry has suffered a setback)

If Shamet had suffered a setback, we'd probably know it by now. My guess is that Ricky is referring to the possibility that Shamet could suffer a season-ending injury at some point in the future and then still have his redshirt year available.

[bighouse]

As @Steeleshocker said, even if it were identical, was it a waste to bring Ron back? Ron helped us get to a Final Four, and we wouldn't have gotten there without him. If Landry could do the same, it would absolutely be worth burning a year of eligibility for only a handful of games.

Sitting aside that Ron had already used his red shirt and Landry has not, the big difference is Ron did not have Ron playing in front of him, and Landry does. Ron came back and there was a need for him and an opening for him to play major minutes. Realistically how many minutes is Landry going to take from Ron in an NCAA tournament game? Ron and Fred will be on the floor 38+ minutes a game, is it worth a year for 2 minutes a game for 6-10 games?

[jdshock]

Sitting aside that Ron had already used his red shirt and Landry has not, the big difference is Ron did not have Ron playing in front of him, and Landry does. Ron came back and there was a need for him and an opening for him to play major minutes. Realistically how many minutes is Landry going to take from Ron in an NCAA tournament game? Ron and Fred will be on the floor 38+ minutes a game, is it worth a year for 2 minutes a game for 6-10 games?

Definitely true. I've gone on record in other threads saying that I can't imagine Ron and Fred playing fewer than 35 minutes in a close March game. But just as a reminder, Landry was starting games before he went down with an injury. Ron can easily move to the 3 in our system. The question is how many minutes does Landry take away from Fred + Ron + anyone that we have play the 3 regularly, all combined. Even if he only takes a couple minutes from each, that's 10 minutes a game.

I think we'll be really lucky to have Landry for four years. He has the promise of Fred and Ron and the athletic gifts that will make him a desirable NBA prospect.

But to specifically address your question: is 2 minutes a game for 6-10 games worth it? Even assuming it's a full year burned (i.e., he would stay a full five years if we redshirted him), and assuming only 2 minutes a game... If Landry makes us any more likely to reach a Final Four, you've got to play him. Our roster this year is special. As good as we will be in the future, we need to take advantage of every opportunity we have this year for a special run.

[bighouse]

Definitely true. I've gone on record in other threads saying that I can't imagine Ron and Fred playing fewer than 35 minutes in a close March game. But just as a reminder, Landry was starting games before he went down with an injury. Ron can easily move to the 3 in our system. The question is how many minutes does Landry take away from Fred + Ron + anyone that we have play the 3 regularly, all combined. Even if he only takes a couple minutes from each, that's 10 minutes a game.

I think we'll be really lucky to have Landry for four years. He has the promise of Fred and Ron and the athletic gifts that will make him a desirable NBA prospect.

But to specifically address your question: is 2 minutes a game for 6-10 games worth it? Even assuming it's a full year burned (i.e., he would stay a full five years if we redshirted him), and assuming only 2 minutes a game... If Landry makes us any more likely to reach a Final Four, you've got to play him. Our roster this year is special. As good as we will be in the future, we need to take advantage of every opportunity we have this year for a special run.

I agree with everything you're saying here for sure. There are so many factors to consider, and i am glad its not my decision to make. Also when he was playing a lot of minutes early we were getting nothing from ZB and not nearly as much from MM, not to mention CF not being eligible at that point. The backcourt is much more crowded now. But yes if Landry comes in and hits one shot or makes one pass or gets one stop that gets us to a national championship you better believe burn that shirt.

[CBB_Fan]

Definitely true. I've gone on record in other threads saying that I can't imagine Ron and Fred playing fewer than 35 minutes in a close March game. But just as a reminder, Landry was starting games before he went down with an injury. Ron can easily move to the 3 in our system. The question is how many minutes does Landry take away from Fred + Ron + anyone that we have play the 3 regularly, all combined. Even if he only takes a couple minutes from each, that's 10 minutes a game.

I think we'll be really lucky to have Landry for four years. He has the promise of Fred and Ron and the athletic gifts that will make him a desirable NBA prospect.

But to specifically address your question: is 2 minutes a game for 6-10 games worth it? Even assuming it's a full year burned (i.e., he would stay a full five years if we redshirted him), and assuming only 2 minutes a game... If Landry makes us any more likely to reach a Final Four, you've got to play him. Our roster this year is special. As good as we will be in the future, we need to take advantage of every opportunity we have this year for a special run.

It might be 2 minutes a game. It might also be 15 minutes in a game versus Maryland/KU/etc. in the Round of 32 where the stripes decide Fred or Ron needs to sit with 2 fouls early in the first or 4 fouls early in the second, 15 minutes that could either be the end of our season or the start of a Final Four run. We can't plan on Fred and Ron playing 38 minutes each every single night, even if we wanted to there is definitely going to be a night where one or the other has to sit for one reason or another.

[WSUwatcher]

If LeFred and Ron are playing 38 minutes a game in NCAA play at the end of a season that started with LeFred injured and significantly hobbled to the point where he missed games and is still recovering, and Ron spending part of his summer playing high level international basketball in the same event for which also LeFred tried out, I'll be very surprised.

They're really good, but they're both better when they aren't completely worn out and are in the best shape they can be in.

[bighouse]

If LeFred and Ron are playing 38 minutes a game in NCAA play at the end of a season that started with LeFred injured and significantly hobbled to the point where he missed games and is still recovering, and Ron spending part of his summer playing high level international basketball in the same event for which also LeFred tried out, I'll be very surprised.

They're really good, but they're both better when they aren't completely worn out and are in the best shape they can be in.

There should be several games similar to Saturday where they only need to play 24 mpg and a week break between conference tournament and ncaa, and obviously playing rested players is best but you better believe in a win or go home game those two will be 35-38 min if allowed by John and his crew.

[Steeleshocker]

There should be several games similar to Saturday where they only need to play 24 mpg and a week break between conference tournament and ncaa, and obviously playing rested players is best but you better believe in a win or go home game those two will be 35-38 min if allowed by John and his crew.

Imagine having another quality guard available when Malcolm had foul trouble against Louisville or Fred against Kentucky. If Landry can go, he makes us better and adds depth.