WSU vs GWU GAME DISCUSSION

[Dan]

I'm gonna go head and say YES he is done as a Shocker. We have over recruited next year for a reason. Young man is just obviously not fitting in.

I still cannot believe a couple 3 or 4 star big's didn't sign on with the Shockers to play with Fred, Ron and Cotton for a couple years. All that publicity and national "run"....how did we NOT get at least one???? Just weird that we were unable to CAPITALIZE on recruiting and sign a couple BIG'S after our Final Four run.

Yes we ARE small this year and to be honest....I am officially saying to myself and conceiting the fact that we are in a "rebuilding" year. No bigs but Carter (playing slightly out of position) and nothing but ALL FRESHMEN. Oh sure....we should still be able to finish 1 or 2 in the Valley and go dancing in March.....but I can't and won't expect much success in the tourney this year. To me....this is a rebuilding year fer sure. REBUILDING YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Future....Maybe Ron stays one more year and Hamilton will come in strong next season and mesh with Kelly. I'm assuming that's all the post play we will have next year as I'm also assuming Markis McDuffie will be placed at Sunrise.

wow, that's a lot of wild assumptions in here. And it's "conceding". I'd be shocked if we sent McDuffie to Sunrise, kid's a major stud. He will play next year.

[shoxlax]

So could Hamilton come in at semester and be immediately eligible if we had an open schollie?

[Zubcut]

wow, that's a lot of wild assumptions in here. And it's "conceding". I'd be shocked if we sent McDuffie to Sunrise, kid's a major stud. He will play next year.

Hopefully. The scouting report says great skills but needs to get MUCH stronger.

[Perezident]

We miss Jans........a lot. We got outcoached tonight. Ron is playing himself out of the first round (I guess that's not all bad). .........Fred and Ron got some pre-season AA run. I do not see them getting any post-season AA run......... Brown was 2-2 from beyond the arc, I think we shoulda got him a 3rd shot. That doesn't seem that hard..... At a time when we needed to score we had Bush shooting 12-footers...... I don't think Shaq will finish the year........ We need Cotton back. The difference in the game was probably those 2 lazy passes up top by our Seniors. Ron has to shoot when they give him the shot............ We need a shotblocker. the stuff our guys get away with in practice (guessing) is getting swatted back at them in games. We will fall to the low 20's which is probably a more accurate rating of our team.

Agree with a lot of this rant. Bizarre decisions/plays throughout the game. Starts with HCGM. Had guys riding pine who were red-hot (Holland and Brown) while Cotton, Carter, and Bush, fumbled and bumbled their way up and down the court. Carter, in particular, surprised me at just how bad he could be, definitely expected more from him. And the 1-3-1 should not have stifled us for nearly a complete half!! Again, that's on the coach, imo.

Thankfully we play in a crap conference that we should more or less dominate regardless. We'll be in trouble come tourney time.

[Shock Top]

The team will be fine. All teams have growing pains and rough patches.

I know everyone is disappointed with a loss, but some people act as if someone just shot their dog or something. The season is far from over.

[Dave Stalwart]

Basically, I think we've established that this is a rebuilding year. That's valid. There are fairly serious issues that have surfaced. There is still really good reason to be happy, though. In the Marshall Era, a rebuilding year is 10-2 with a high RPI. We still have that high upside to boot. If our bigs possess the talent to arrive someday, our trajectory is still good. We won't be in a final 4, and we may even struggle some in the MVC since the top half is good this year. It will be a fun year still. I am sure of that. GW was as good as UNI. No shame in losing to them.

[AZ Shocker]

wow, that's a lot of wild assumptions in here. And it's "conceding". I'd be shocked if we sent McDuffie to Sunrise, kid's a major stud. He will play next year.

Assumptions sure (that's what I said). We all heard and thought both Brown and Hamilton were studs coming out of high school but they were slowed a year at Sunrise before arriving at 21st St. Obviously we're still waiting for Hamilton of course...but Glass and the Nigerian kid are obvious bust thus far and Shaq even with a year in the system being a redshirt hasn't done squat. Sorry guys...you all know I love my Shockers and I'm not trying to be a "downer" here....but we MAY be in trouble not only this year but possibly next year having not landed a couple good legit bigs. Oh do I miss Lufile and Coleby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

I'm tired.....and probably talking out of my ass at this point....very mad at myself for even bringing this up at this point in the thread on Christmas of all days. Good night everyone and I hope everyone had a awesomely blessed Christmas with all your's family!!!!!! :)

p.s. Dan don't rip me on the "your's" in that last sentence. I'm tired damnit. Lol ;)

GO SHOCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jocoshock]

These teams are not long and athletic, we are short and unathletic. When EVERY team we play looks bigger and stronger than us, it is on us and not them. I do not think Hawaii, Detroit, and GWU are world shakers. I don't think Alabama is close to what a real long and athletic team like UK or Texas. Frankly we'd be killed by the top teams right now and have yet to impress in any single game, losing both of our games to tournament level teams and getting outplayed by several mediocre teams. I think we are worse than our 10-2 record or RPI show, and I'm just disappointed by the quality of basketball we've played. We could play much better, much smarter, and we just don't against even average teams.

I'd be fine losing because our newcomers lacked experience or didn't show up. That is expected. What isn't expected is bullheaded plays by Ron and Fred driving us down. These guys are supposedly smart players, our leaders, but they consistently make dumb plays on offense. Nurger, Brown, and Kelly are playing much better than the guys that are supposed to have this figured out. I don't think I can handle another guarded 28 ft jump shot.

This one was on Fred, Ron and Tekele. Despite our issues on the front line, this game was winnable. I too am curious why ZB was in only a couple of minutes in the first half. If these guys can't play angry right now, they should at least play smart..

[shox1989]

We miss Jans........a lot. We got outcoached tonight. Ron is playing himself out of the first round (I guess that's not all bad). .........Fred and Ron got some pre-season AA run. I do not see them getting any post-season AA run......... Brown was 2-2 from beyond the arc, I think we shoulda got him a 3rd shot. That doesn't seem that hard..... At a time when we needed to score we had Bush shooting 12-footers...... I don't think Shaq will finish the year........ We need Cotton back. The difference in the game was probably those 2 lazy passes up top by our Seniors. Ron has to shoot when they give him the shot............ We need a shotblocker. the stuff our guys get away with in practice (guessing) is getting swatted back at them in games. We will fall to the low 20's which is probably a more accurate rating of our team.

The GWU coach made a brilliant change going to the 1-3-1 zone late in the game. The Shockers had the game under control leading by 6 points. Then the zone change and GWU finishes the game on a 14-2 run.

It is still hard for me to believe that WSU could only score 2 points the last 6 minutes of the game but it happened. WSU never did figure out that 1-3-1 zone.

If GWU doesn't make the change to the 1-3-1 zone, there is no doubt in mind that WSU wins this game.

The GWU coach also did a smart thing by not showing the 1-3-1 zone at all in the first half. No chance for Marshall to discuss that zone during half time.

There is no reason for fans to jump off the ledge. GWU is a very good team and their coach threw in a nice wrinkle at the end to pull of the upset.

[CBB_Fan]

The GWU coach made a brilliant change going to the 1-3-1 zone late in the game. The Shockers had the game under control leading by 6 points. Then the zone change and GWU finishes the game on a 14-2 run.

It is still hard for me to believe that WSU could only score 2 points the last 6 minutes of the game but it happened. WSU never did figure out that 1-3-1 zone.

If GWU doesn't make the change to the 1-3-1 zone, there is no doubt in mind that WSU wins this game.

The GWU coach also did a smart thing by not showing the 1-3-1 zone at all in the first half. No chance for Marshall to discuss that zone during half time.

There is no reason for fans to jump off the ledge. GWU is a very good team and their coach threw in a nice wrinkle at the end to pull of the upset.

What's concerning is not the loss, but the continued level of play. A single bad game doesn't mean much, we we played at pretty much this exact same level going back 8 games to Utah. This wasn't a deviation from the norm, it is the norm. We are just a small team that has a tendency to go really, really cold for stretches that can last games (see: 0 made 3s in first 3 halves of play). That is a bad combination. And we can't blame strong opposing defenses too much as Alabama, Hawaii, and Detroit are all average/below average defenses statistically no matter what they looked like against us.

[vancedave56]

Bottom line - have to put the ball in the hole; we need makers not takers. Our shooting has been poor; if we make a decent percentage, everything changes. Mentally tired, stressed, putting too much pressure on ourselves. We've had good shots, just not making enough.

[DUShock]

What's concerning is not the loss, but the continued level of play. A single bad game doesn't mean much, we we played at pretty much this exact same level going back 8 games to Utah. This wasn't a deviation from the norm, it is the norm. We are just a small team that has a tendency to go really, really cold for stretches that can last games (see: 0 made 3s in first 3 halves of play). That is a bad combination. And we can't blame strong opposing defenses too much as Alabama, Hawaii, and Detroit are all average/below average defenses statistically no matter what they looked like against us.

This. We knew that this would be a year of ups & downs while the team found itself. As I said in a previous post, I have faith in HCGM, faith in this team, and faith in the future. Stella got her groove back, so will our Shocks.

Go Shocks!

[wu_shizzle]

Some of you are going a little far.

I get it that we haven't played our best consistently, but are you forgetting the LMU game?

In this same tournament, we played a game in which we could do no wrong.

Even our 2nd and 3rd team looked great.

We had a cold shooting night against a defense that needs time to scout and practice against.

I'm not worried.

[pinstripers]

that team SUCKED

[im4wsu]

This is my thoughts on this game exactly. You can't blame this game on our youth and inexperience. All of our veterans are to blame for this one. Our youth actually were the ones who got us the lead that our veterans couldn't hold and that's why I'm more disappointed in this game than I would normally be. Everyone has been top-toeing around it and I know we expect so much out of Ron and Fred, but they just look like they are pressing way too much and that they aren't just playing and letting the game come to them.

There are no "veterans" or "youth" or "Fred & Ron" or ",fill-in-the-blank> in T-E-A-M. The chemistry is not there, consistently, regardless of who is on the court. Perhaps Fred's dribbling is partly because the cuts aren't made or the screens aren't effective, or the post-ups aren't "sincere."

I distinctly remember that after Antoine Carr departed, the guards passing seemed to suffer a bit. You see, the Big Dog could turn a poor pass into a highlight dunk. The guards didn't get worse, they just weren't passing to AC any longer.