WSU vs GWU GAME DISCUSSION

[Mr. Pickle]

We are spoiled as a fan base...it was one game against a good RPI opponent

That's the thing - it hasn't just been one game. It's been like this for 2 weeks now. Issues have reared their ugly heads. Now it's time for the coaches and players to get back to work to fix them.

[BikeIdiot]

Yes, I agree. His 4.2 pts, 4 rbds could have helped.

Apparently 10k+ posts doesn't mean someone understands the nuances of the game. Unless I mistakenly read sarcasm in this post where none was intended.

[pinstripers]

Playing well and losing is not that same as playing badly and getting beat.

[SB Shock]

Apparently 10k+ posts doesn't mean someone understands the nuances of the game. Unless I mistakenly read sarcasm in this post where none was intended.

No - I was really agreeing with you. We could have used his ability to shoot 3's, and rebound and his his determination on the floor. His motor is always running unlike some and their lazy-ass passes last night.

[Shock Top]

That's the thing - it hasn't just been one game. It's been like this for 2 weeks now. Issues have reared their ugly heads. Now it's time for the coaches and players to get back to work to fix them.

They still won games though.

I'd rather win ugly, then lose pretty (UK game, anyone).

[60Shock]

We lost this game not only because of our mediocre shooting, getting our layups blocked, and inability (except for Fred) to take the ball in and score inside.

Plus, like in most of our games against better teams, we simply can't seem to stop their players from driving to the basket and scoring. Obviously we missed Wessel and Cotton and Ron looked later in the game like he was ill, just a guess on my part, but he looked fatigued.

All in all, we lost to a good team and sure, any loss hurts, but hopefully these mistakes will be corrected. They better, as we can expect similar defenses to be thrown at us throughout the rest of 2015 and into the NCAA tournament.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Don't know if anyone has noticed, but our top 4 active posters on SN has not made 1 post in over 24 hours. Fev, 1972Shocker, Doc, and Royal. I'd count #5, Trop, but he isn't posting that regularly of late. I know it was Christmas and all, but still.

I am awaiting their thoughts and insight.

I am not a top five guy, but I have some deep, insightful insights.

1. Starters - 29.2% against GW
2. Returning starters - 31.1% against GW
3. Missing Cle
4. Missing 5 hole defenders (Yes, I know I have been shouted down on this point. There was something said about Darius' long arms or somethin' like that.)
5. Starter playing out of position.
6. Only one consistent 3 ball maker....when he is making them.
7. Our 6' point guard was able to make a lot of layups last year or draw a lot of fouls in trying. The opposition has decided to do something about it.

There is more, but the above will provide a lot of gristle to get started.

[shockerfanmas]

They still won games though.

I'd rather win ugly, then lose pretty (UK game, anyone).

The problem is, those "ugly" wins get taken into consideration come tournament time, as do what I like to call "good" losses. Yes, the trend lately for the Shockers isn't good. The focus seems to be gone. I understand a win is a win, unfortunately every game still gets broken down, and what we are seeing when we break down some of this ugly wins, doesn't bode well for the future at all.

[ShockTalk]

Just curious, based on this hypothesis, where they were the first 9 minutes of the game? Check the start of this thread. People didn't show up until things started going badly. That, I think, is why people have some disdain about the "we suck" crowd.

I'm a little confused (nothing new). Were we not up 8 midway through the 2nd half? Up until very late, there was nothing new that was happening that had not happen in 2 or 3 of the previous 4 games. I believe the "we suck" phrase has been used during other games this year to describe the current play. Again, I may very well be wrong, but I don't believe many, maybe a couple, have used that term to describe the team in general for the season or going forward.

Most of "that crowd" are concerned about the 4 of 5 game trend and most believe it will improve, just maybe not to the level other "pumpers" thought this team was at or to be. Had we held that 8 point lead, we may have very well been 8 or 9 in Monday's polls. More power to those if they truly believe that is the level we have been playing at.

[ShockTalk]

I am not a top five guy, but I have some deep, insightful insights.

1. Starters - 29.2% against GW
2. Returning starters - 31.1% against GW
3. Missing Cle
4. Missing 5 hole defenders (Yes, I know I have been shouted down on this point. There was something said about Darius' long arms or somethin' like that.)
5. Starter playing out of position.
6. Only one consistent 3 ball maker....when he is making them.
7. Our 6' point guard was able to make a lot of layups last year or draw a lot of fouls in trying. The opposition has decided to do something about it.

There is more, but the above will provide a lot of gristle to get started.

Careful RDR. You might get labeled some you're not. :playful:

[Fozzy]

The articles in the Wichita Eagle about the game are pretty good - the recap one (http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...le4989078.html) to see the viewpoint from the GW coach, and Paul's Day After one (http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...le5014176.html) which gives the viewpoint of HCGM moving forward and Tekele's finger issue.

[Shock Top]

The problem is, those "ugly" wins get taken into consideration come tournament time, as do what I like to call "good" losses. Yes, the trend lately for the Shockers isn't good. The focus seems to be gone. I understand a win is a win, unfortunately every game still gets broken down, and what we are seeing when we break down some of this ugly wins, doesn't bode well for the future at all.

Might as well just close shop, for the season, huh?!

Seriously though. There is more season left, then what they have currently played.

Shox will be perfectly fine.

[shockerfanmas]

Let me rephrase what I said so that people don't get offended by a little bit of negativity or constructive criticism. In the last few games, especially some of those ugly wins that Shurtz talks about, if you broke those wins down, you would see many things that the good teams will and have exposed so far. FVV and Baker for whatever reason sucking it up right now, subpar post play, subpar defense, etc etc. Things that can be fixed, that need to be fixed if the Shockers want to extend their season well into March.

I think a lot of fans are in panic mode because our Shox are getting ready to start MVC play, which most of us know will be RPI killers (other than Northern Iowa). Playing ugly basketball and suffering a few conference losses could hurt the NCAA Tournament chances, much less a chance at a really high seed. We know the NCAA has a bias toward the big schools.. just hypothetically, say WSU loses 4 conference games, plus loses in the MVC tournament. Now that brings the total up to 7 losses. Given the conference WSU plays in, if a final at-large bid came down to a WSU team that plays in the 12th, 13th (whatever) rated conference and loses 7 games, or (just throwing a team out there) a Virginia team that loses 10 games but plays in the ACC, a top 2 or 3 conference.

Hypothetically, is it out of the realm of possibility for the selection committee to snub the Shockers in favor of a power conference team that has more losses? The answer is no. The selection committee could, and probably would do so.

Therefore, I think that's why some fans are in meltdown mode, because playing ugly basketball won't work against the better teams WSU faces, not to mention if we have any setbacks in MVC play. Ultimately, the goal for this team should be the NCAA Tournament, and IMO right now, while the Shox are still a no-doubt NCAA tournament team, they aren't playing like it. I think that is the fear some people have.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I think people are underestimating our defense. We know the guards are aggressive, and they will give up some easy looks, but make sure you weigh in the steals and turnovers. We give up some easy transition baskets, but make sure you weigh in the extra chances we get.

So far, we have taken more shots than every opponent except Hawai'i (Outshot us by 1). Many times we have taken in excess of 12 more shots. Because of this, we dont have to shoot as well as they do. But we do have to shoot better than we have been.

We do not have people to bang it out inside. So we try to get to them before they get there, dropping guards down to get a hand on the ball.

If FVV, Baker, Cotton, and Carter continue to play the amount of minutes they do, even with Holland and Brown shooting and playing defense as well as they were, then I think we will struggle as the season wears on.

[Mr. Pickle]

They still won games though.

I'd rather win ugly, then lose pretty (UK game, anyone).

Yeah, I think we would all take ugly wins over pretty losses, but you are kidding yourself if you aren't a little concerned about the way we have played 4 out of the last 5 games. We won the games, but did so in spite of ourselves, and the fact that we have put that many poor performances (minus LMU) in a row looms larger for the season than the fact that we won those games against mediocre teams.