WSU vs GWU GAME DISCUSSION

[1979Shocker]

We can't win every game where we are outplayed. Utah, Detroit, Alabama, Hawaii and now this game. Our loss was deserved. Frankly we haven't played quality basketball and were over ranked.

Fred and Ron are the problem, not the solution. The have only themselves to blame for their slumps. The dominant trend in our offense has been their forced shots and our stale ball movement with very little vertical passing.

We need to trust our newcomers and get the ball inside more instead of jacking up guarded jump shots. Crappy shots lead to crappy shooting.

We have a long way to go and this definitely a trend.

Fred and Ron have been up against teams that have been long and athletic where it's hard to get an open shot.

They main problem we have and will continue to have this season is not have an true 5 who can give us some offense. It won't hurt us in the regular season, but when we go up against a big, athletic front line in the post season, we're going to have problems.

[shocks771]

Exactly! It'd be different if we gave GW our best shot and the out played us. Or we just need freshman to step up. It's our leaders, our best players who need to get it figured out. I think that's what's worrying us. We lost to Kentucky and Louisville and I didn't walk away feeling like losers. We gave them our best shot. That was not our best shot.

This is my thoughts on this game exactly. You can't blame this game on our youth and inexperience. All of our veterans are to blame for this one. Our youth actually were the ones who got us the lead that our veterans couldn't hold and that's why I'm more disappointed in this game than I would normally be. Everyone has been top-toeing around it and I know we expect so much out of Ron and Fred, but they just look like they are pressing way too much and that they aren't just playing and letting the game come to them.

[molly jabali]

If grades were being passed out on this game, I'd give Fred and Ron C's, Tekele a D and the frosh A's...Darius I Can't decide...BUT it is one game....and They played great...

[swiltar71]

I'm not unhappy with 10-2 for the schedule we've had, just unhappy with the way we have been playing. I hope this isn't the start of another 06-07 type season when the wheels fell off. I don't think so with HCGM but it's hard to watch right now.
We're best when we press (which coach rarely does) and push (which Fred rarely does)

[vancedave56]

Darius only posted one time down low - he scored. Spent too much time on the perimeter.

[Mr. Pickle]

We miss Cle and Jans a little more than I thought we would.

[Zubcut]

One thing that's really hurt the Shox is the fact that our JuCo signings have turned out to be huge disappointments. You needed them to produce early to let the Frosh bigs have time to develop. At this point I have to say it looks like they are unlikely to be of much help this year and probably their careers. It's a position of weakness on this team which makes their lack of productivity even more damaging.

[LandStander]

This is my thoughts on this game exactly. You can't blame this game on our youth and inexperience. All of our veterans are to blame for this one. Our youth actually were the ones who got us the lead that our veterans couldn't hold and that's why I'm more disappointed in this game than I would normally be. Everyone has been top-toeing around it and I know we expect so much out of Ron and Fred, but they just look like they are pressing way too much and that they aren't just playing and letting the game come to them.

Yep. Also, can't blame just Ron and Fred. If you asked me who our best players tonight were if say brown and holland without hesitation. Where were they the last 5 minutes? I would never EVER say anything negative about 3G. I remember what it was like pre Gregg, but it certainly wasn't his best game either. But I'm no coach, I'm hardly smart, maybe it was a matchup thing, or a trust thing or an experience thing. Every year it's about figuring out how to play together with the new guys and the old and working around who you lost. It's a long season that just started, and we are growing and learning. It's still the best 3 years in the history of shocker sports. This team is still a top 25 team most nights, 3G is a recruiting fool and our future is really bright. I'm just thankful that unlike some fan bases who also have 2 loses, that we are not calling Gregg's head. I hope he's here for a loooooong time!!!!

[mjbaker84]

so why if any explanation for holland not playing the last 5-6 minutes??

[LandStander]

One thing that's really hurt the Shox is the fact that our JuCo signings have turned out to be huge disappointments. You needed them to produce early to let the Frosh bigs have time to develop. At this point I have to say it looks like they are unlikely to be of much help this year and probably their careers. It's a position of weakness on this team which makes their lack of productivity even more damaging.

Very true! 3 years ago when Hall came around (of course he was a man playing against boys) and Cle the year after, they were HUGE additions early on. We needed post depth, coaches know that, we bring in 2 junco posts to help the transitions to our frosh posts but they are so far behind.

[Zubcut]

Yep. Also, can't blame just Ron and Fred. If you asked me who our best players tonight were if say brown and holland without hesitation. Where were they the last 5 minutes? I would never EVER say anything negative about 3G. I remember what it was like pre Gregg, but it certainly wasn't his best game either. But I'm no coach, I'm hardly smart, maybe it was a matchup thing, or a trust thing or an experience thing. Every year it's about figuring out how to play together with the new guys and the old and working around who you lost. It's a long season that just started, and we are growing and learning. It's still the best 3 years in the history of shocker sports. This team is still a top 25 team most nights, 3G is a recruiting fool and our future is really bright. I'm just thankful that unlike some fan bases who also have 2 loses, that we are not calling Gregg's head. I hope he's here for a loooooong time!!!!

I think with the trouble they were having with that 1-3-1 he trusted the veterans more to figure it out. I was surprised how clueless they looked against it.

[LandStander]

so why if any explanation for holland not playing the last 5-6 minutes??

Has to be trust. You ask me yesterday who I want on the court to bring home the win in the final 5 minutes and it'd be our starting line up.

[mjbaker84]

Very true! 3 years ago when Hall came around (of course he was a man playing against boys) and Cle the year after, they were HUGE additions early on. We needed post depth, coaches know that, we bring in 2 junco posts to help the transitions to our frosh posts but they are so far behind.

They were both juco all americans right?
Isn't carter one?
do we have any juniors that shared similar accomplishments on the team?

[CBB_Fan]

Fred and Ron been up against teams that have been long and athletic where it's hard to get an open shot.

They main problem we have and will continue to have this season is not have an true 5 who can give us some offense. It won't hurt us in the regular season, but when we go up against a big, athletic front line in the post season, we're going to have problems.

These teams are not long and athletic, we are short and unathletic. When EVERY team we play looks bigger and stronger than us, it is on us and not them. I do not think Hawaii, Detroit, and GWU are world shakers. I don't think Alabama is close to what a real long and athletic team like UK or Texas. Frankly we'd be killed by the top teams right now and have yet to impress in any single game, losing both of our games to tournament level teams and getting outplayed by several mediocre teams. I think we are worse than our 10-2 record or RPI show, and I'm just disappointed by the quality of basketball we've played. We could play much better, much smarter, and we just don't against even average teams.

I'd be fine losing because our newcomers lacked experience or didn't show up. That is expected. What isn't expected is bullheaded plays by Ron and Fred driving us down. These guys are supposedly smart players, our leaders, but they consistently make dumb plays on offense. Nurger, Brown, and Kelly are playing much better than the guys that are supposed to have this figured out. I don't think I can handle another guarded 28 ft jump shot.

[LandStander]

I think with the trouble they were having with that 1-3-1 he trusted the veterans more to figure it out. I was surprised how clueless they looked against it.

We are going to see a lot of zone this year. Hopefully it makes is a better, smarter team.