MVC tourney announcement

[ShockerGorilla]

Curse You! How dare you think we'll still be around to find out!

We could be around at that point -- possibly in the SEC tourney if HCGM gets his wishes.

[im4wsu]

Maybe it was advertised to be "historic" because this is the first time a major city like Chicago had been turned down.

[WuDrWu]

By the way, KW, I'm no fan of Elgin or the Valley either, and I enjoy making fun of them as much as anyone. I'm hoping WSU can become a basketball, or even complete non-football, member of the AAC.

But it was an easy and obvious decision for them to favor St. Louis over KC.

I actually am a fan of Doug Elgin, even though I'm not a fan of all of his decisions. I ran into him at the Final Four and had a very brief exchange, and in previous business activities I've found him to be polite, professional, courteous and helpful.

Without seeing the financial numbers, I don't see how you can clearly support and or like what you said. I think St. Louis makes sense, but I think KC makes sense too, if the numbers are there. I don't believe we have enough information, and I would LOVE to see the RFPs (at times, I am elbow deep in those from time to time) and compare what was presented. That the presidents voted unanimously tells you something, but I'd still like to see the numbers.

[Ricardo del Rio]

My reaction to the historic announcement was "weak."

[Art Vandelay]

Art...Art...When was the last time your school won the All Sports trophy (I'm guessing not recently, we win it every year)? When was the last time your basketball team made the Final 4 (If you're not an ISU fan this should be interesting)? When was the last time your school won a NCAA tournament championship in any sport (I'm guessing never)? When was the last time your basketball team completed the regular season undefeated (Again, never)? We have every right to be on a high horse, we're the flagship university that's bringing any kind of press to this low rent conference. You're lucky to be associated with us. We give your school a chance at national exposure with a beatdown on ESPN or CBS twice a year.

WSU fans over the last 6 years have spent their money traveling to St Louis (I've been the last 10), this year was the perfect example of how all the other schools have given up...their attendance numbers were pathetic. The majority of fans attending the tournament have the furthest to travel. Maybe if the closer ones showed some support we wouldn't have an argument.

An "All Sports Trophy"? Really? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? LOL! That must be a joke right? Did you attend any of those cross country or tennis matches? Probably not. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A SH1T! Again, I don't want to take anything away from the past couple of season's, but honestly, that's all you've got. And I hate to continue to rain on your parade, but in case you haven't noticed inside your cave there in Witchita, fans are fickle. Of course when you have successful seasons, fans show up in droves but have a down year and those same fans are nowhere to be found. You're the "flagship university" NOW, sorta like the flavor of the week but that hasn't always been so. SIU and CU have had this similar run in conference dominance in the recent past, you aren't staking any new territory that hasn't all been visited. During those runs, those schools fans dominated attendace. They were by far the majority come conference tourney time so to act as if WSU's attendance in St. Louis or the couple of ESPN games is some sort of gift is laughable. You do realize SIU hosted Gameday right? The point is that WSU isn't the only school to have their share of the limelight. It comes and goes so get over yourself. What's amazing and more so disapointing is this lack of vision outside of your yellow shaded glasses. The "my daddy is the strongest" attitude is a little pathetic. You're not owed anything so quit bitching. Enjoy your success and stop being such a douche.

[Mr. Pickle]

Ruh roh. Art's about to get it.

[Cdizzle]

An "All Sports Trophy"? Really?

Yep. It points to a pretty significant, long-term, across-the-board difference in athletic departments between WSU and the rest of the league.

Again, I don't want to take anything away from the past couple of season's, but honestly, that's all you've got.

You don't want to take anything away? Oh good. You couldn't if you tried. Over the past 4 years, WSU has 2 dominant 1st place finishes, 2 close 2nd place finishes, and has compiled a record of 58-12 against the league. In that time, WSU also has an NIT championship, 3 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances with an average seed of 5, and, you know, a Final Four. WSU is averaging over 30 wins per season over the past 4 years, and 6 losses, while compiling the best road record in the nation, and being a consistent member of the Top 25 rankings. WSU has 2 All-Americans, an MVC POY, a 3-time MVC COY, a consensus National COY, and spent the last season ranked in the Top 5. This isn't a "nice little run." This is "Katy bar the door" for the Valley, at least until Marshall decides to leave, and even now there may be too much inertia for that to be enough.

And I hate to continue to rain on your parade, but in case you haven't noticed inside your cave there in Witchita, fans are fickle. Of course when you have successful seasons, fans show up in droves but have a down year and those same fans are nowhere to be found. You're the "flagship university" NOW, sorta like the flavor of the week but that hasn't always been so.

Fans are fickle. Wichita State fans are not. Over the last 35 years years Wichita State has averaged 9,144 in attendance. With a 10,500 seat arena you're going to have to give up either the 'fickle' argument or the 'nice little run' argument, or as I would advise, both.

SIU and CU have had this similar run in conference dominance in the recent past, you aren't staking any new territory that hasn't all been visited.

SIU had a 'similar' run. Creighton most definitely did not. And yes, staking that 18-0 was a pretty big "hasn't been visited", in case you missed it. So was the Top 10, er Top 5, er Top 2. At least, "hasn't been visited" since WSU last did it.

They were by far the majority come conference tourney time so to act as if WSU's attendance in St. Louis or the couple of ESPN games is some sort of gift is laughable.

Creighton, and their fans, deserve tons of credit for their continued stellar attendance at the MVC tournament. I award no credit to a school that has to drive 90 minutes to see their team, and won't even do that when they aren't in the Top 2 in the league.
And yes, WSU's continued national relevance, media, and ESPN exposure if not a gift, is something quite close to it.

What's amazing and more so disapointing is this lack of vision outside of your yellow shaded glasses.

The lack of vision has nothing to do with WSU. WSU has a vision of a new arena filled to the rafters, hiring the national coach of the year, watching All-Americans, and winning championships....and not just the conference kind. No, the lack of vision has to do with a league that watches one of its best members leave and decides to replace them with Loyola. The lack of vision is from someone who has the audacity to tell me that "Union Station has been transformed."

You're not owed anything so quit bitching.

WSU isn't owed favoritism. But then no one is asking to have the games played in Wichita. They are owed some "give a ****" both by the league and the other schools in it. And not just in regard to the tournament. It's very easy to underestimate the differences associated with attending the Valley tournament when you compare teams like WSU and SIU. For WSU fans it involves booking hotels, spending hundreds on gas, buying all-session passes, cause you know, I've already got this hotel, and taking vacation days. For SIU fans it involves waiting until Saturday to see if the team is still in it, waking up and driving over, scalping a ticket, and driving home. That is what makes the attendance disparity so shocking. But I guess I could perhaps refer you to my data on "fickle" fans, above.

[SB Shock]

Again, I don't want to take anything away from the past couple of season's, but honestly, that's all you've got. .

Since 2002:

WSU finished 1st - 3
WSU finished 2nd - 5
WSU finished 3rd - 1
WSU finished 5t - 2
WSU finished 6 - 1
WSU finished >6 - 1

That is 13 years WSU has been very, very relevant and one of the best teams in the MVC.

Now add in WSU on the national level has NIT championship, 4 NCAA tournaments (32, S16 and final 4) - there is NOBODY IN THE MVC just on this basis is an equal to WSU. WSU literally is the MVC conference. Without WSU the MVC is the summit or sun belt.

Now, look at WSU baseball - 28 NCAA appearances 34 years. 3 National runner-ups and national champion. I won't even list what they have done against the MVC

Then you have the V-ball program since 2002 has 8 NCAA, 5 MVC titles and worse finish is 1 year at 4th.

BTW, if you look up WSU attendance for baseball and basketball - fan show up year after year.


So I guess what I'm saying is - suck it!

[shockerfan]

Yep. It points to a pretty significant, long-term, across-the-board difference in athletic departments between WSU and the rest of the league.

You don't want to take anything away? Oh good. You couldn't if you tried. Over the past 4 years, WSU has 2 dominant 1st place finishes, 2 close 2nd place finishes, and has compiled a record of 58-12 against the league. In that time, WSU also has an NIT championship, 3 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances with an average seed of 5, and, you know, a Final Four. WSU is averaging over 30 wins per season over the past 4 years, and 6 losses, while compiling the best road record in the nation, and being a consistent member of the Top 25 rankings. WSU has 2 All-Americans, an MVC POY, a 3-time MVC COY, a consensus National COY, and spent the last season ranked in the Top 5. This isn't a "nice little run." This is "Katy bar the door" for the Valley, at least until Marshall decides to leave, and even now there may be too much inertia for that to be enough.

Fans are fickle. Wichita State fans are not. Over the last 35 years years Wichita State has averaged 9,144 in attendance. With a 10,500 seat arena you're going to have to give up either the 'fickle' argument or the 'nice little run' argument, or as I would advise, both.


SIU had a 'similar' run. Creighton most definitely did not. And yes, staking that 18-0 was a pretty big "hasn't been visited", in case you missed it. So was the Top 10, er Top 5, er Top 2. At least, "hasn't been visited" since WSU last did it.

Creighton, and their fans, deserve tons of credit for their continued stellar attendance at the MVC tournament. I award no credit to a school that has to drive 90 minutes to see their team, and won't even do that when they aren't in the Top 2 in the league.
And yes, WSU's continued national relevance, media, and ESPN exposure if not a gift, is something quite close to it.

The lack of vision has nothing to do with WSU. WSU has a vision of a new arena filled to the rafters, hiring the national coach of the year, watching All-Americans, and winning championships....and not just the conference kind. No, the lack of vision has to do with a league that watches one of its best members leave and decides to replace them with Loyola. The lack of vision is from someone who has the audacity to tell me that "Union Station has been transformed."

WSU isn't owed favoritism. But then no one is asking to have the games played in Wichita. They are owed some "give a ****" both by the league and the other schools in it. And not just in regard to the tournament. It's very easy to underestimate the differences associated with attending the Valley tournament when you compare teams like WSU and SIU. For WSU fans it involves booking hotels, spending hundreds on gas, buying all-session passes, cause you know, I've already got this hotel, and taking vacation days. For SIU fans it involves waiting until Saturday to see if the team is still in it, waking up and driving over, scalping a ticket, and driving home. That is what makes the attendance disparity so shocking. But I guess I could perhaps refer you to my data on "fickle" fans, above.

Lol DAMMMNNNN I almost feel bad for Art. Granted he never stood a chance with his weak argument. But I almost feel embarrassed FOR Art...

Well done. If Art knows what is good for him he will "stay down". Don't think he can go anothe round without serious brain damage....

[Kung Wu]

The "my daddy is the strongest" attitude is a little pathetic.

Ut oh, you better run down to the clink -- I think another one of your players might need some bail money.

[WstateU]

An "All Sports Trophy"? Really? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? LOL! That must be a joke right? Did you attend any of those cross country or tennis matches? Probably not. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A SH1T! Again, I don't want to take anything away from the past couple of season's, but honestly, that's all you've got. And I hate to continue to rain on your parade, but in case you haven't noticed inside your cave there in Witchita, fans are fickle. Of course when you have successful seasons, fans show up in droves but have a down year and those same fans are nowhere to be found. You're the "flagship university" NOW, sorta like the flavor of the week but that hasn't always been so. SIU and CU have had this similar run in conference dominance in the recent past, you aren't staking any new territory that hasn't all been visited. During those runs, those schools fans dominated attendace. They were by far the majority come conference tourney time so to act as if WSU's attendance in St. Louis or the couple of ESPN games is some sort of gift is laughable. You do realize SIU hosted Gameday right? The point is that WSU isn't the only school to have their share of the limelight. It comes and goes so get over yourself. What's amazing and more so disapointing is this lack of vision outside of your yellow shaded glasses. The "my daddy is the strongest" attitude is a little pathetic. You're not owed anything so quit bitching. Enjoy your success and stop being such a douche.

Art...

2 key words - "insanely idiotic"

[Shocker-maniac]

Hey Art, Could you enlighten me? What exactly have your Redbirds done in the past couple of years? Or even the past 20 years? Oh. Nothing? Notta? As in zilch? Or maybe Nil? You are being ridiculous.

[WSUwatcher]

I actually am a fan of Doug Elgin, even though I'm not a fan of all of his decisions. I ran into him at the Final Four and had a very brief exchange, and in previous business activities I've found him to be polite, professional, courteous and helpful.

Without seeing the financial numbers, I don't see how you can clearly support and or like what you said. I think St. Louis makes sense, but I think KC makes sense too, if the numbers are there. I don't believe we have enough information, and I would LOVE to see the RFPs (at times, I am elbow deep in those from time to time) and compare what was presented. That the presidents voted unanimously tells you something, but I'd still like to see the numbers.

Fair enough, Doc -- you've obviously had more contact with Elgin than I have, which is zero. And I don't pretend to know enough to have cast an informed vote on the KC vs. St. Louis decision myself.

But given the geography of the league and its office, the decision makes a lot of intuitive sense; and as you note yourself, those who did have the information all came out on the same side. So it would greatly surprise me if, upon being given all the data, I were to come to a different conclusion.

[1972Shocker]

BTW, if you look up WSU attendance for baseball and basketball - fan show up year after year.

Wichita State Volleyball is also very well attended and supported and that is without resorting to ticket give-aways to attract fans. In fact, WSU probably generates more money from its pre-season VB101 Dinner than the rest of the Valley teams do from an entire season of ticket sales. The Shocker Match Club also raises a nice little chunk of change for Volleyball and that is before we sell one season ticket or one walk-up ticket.

Women's Basketball is also picking up support both at games and in terms of High Hoops Booster Club members. With two consecutive Valley regular season and Valley tournament titles with a good possibility for a 3-peat this year that program is also trending strongly upward. Will see what kind of staying power we have going forward.

A first ever Valley softball championship this past year had the softball team drawing better.

But why is that important? Isn't the only thing that really matters in the Valley is the strength and success of men's basketball? There is no doubt that men's basketball is the bell cow at Wichita State and in the MVC. Every dollar that any of your other sports can generate is a dollar that can be retained in the men's basketball program instead of going to subsidize such other sports including money losing FCS football programs.

Even if you don't care about the benefit to men's basketball supporting other sports and student athletes can be fun, believe it or not.

[wusphlash]

We haven't always taken 4,5,6 thousand fans to St. Louis. How soon we forget the bad times. If you want to encourage the rest of the league to attend you don't move the event farther from the center of the fan bases. From a business perspective, this was the correct decision. Keep the product attractive to all fans.