Creighton to announce departure at 10 a.m. press conference tommorow

[C0|dB|00ded]

To be able to play in a BCS league, you must recruit a different kind of player. You must recruit bigger and more athletic players. The big athletic smart ones go to UNC, Duke, ChicKUn U, and Kentucky.. the big, athletic dumb ones go to Rutgers, Providence, and Seton Hall. BJ isn't going to be able to fit in the new league recruiting corn-fed, suburban horse cowboys unless they want to get routinely embarrassed by the likes of a Gtown. They are going to have to go after more athletic BCS players (like we do), and they aren't going to get the best of them. That is why they will most likely become a bottom feeder. They will have to change the type of players they recruit and they will be getting the BCS leftovers.

If the Shox were in the same position with HCGM on the recruiting trail, I think we would have a significant advantage. Wookie couldn't hold HCGM's jock strap when it comes to recruiting.


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[The Mad Hatter]

I would argue that the first several years in the new league are going to be key for Creighton. If CU can be in the top half regularly over the next 5 years, they should do just fine in the transition. If they struggle in those first 5 years, however, it will be hard to change the perception amongst recruits that CU is not a contender and the luster of the new league will start to fade as fans become frustrated with losing.

I think CU is certainly capable of being a top half team in that stretch, but it is by no means a certainty. Early struggles would not doom the program for forever, but, just like WSU coming out of the 90s, the road back would not be an easy one. Only time will tell.

[C0|dB|00ded]

BJ recruits players that are similar to NIU.. corn-fed and smart. If they are hitting their shots they can sink a decent BCS team every now and then, but over the course of a season, and especially in a conference full of athletic teams, they would be doomed if they didn't significantly change the makeup of their roster. They need athletic post men who can rebound and play above the rim. The Slo-Mo Gibbs and Wragge-like players can survive in a mid-major conference, but would be toast against teams like GTown.


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[jdshock]

Doug is a goner.

As far as after that, you don't know that we'll suck any more than us being sure we won't. It remains to be seen what sort of guys we do get. We had Russell Westbrook until the last few days of recruiting when UCLA popped up with a scholie, and his dad overruled him when he told him he was coming here anyway because 'you're not going to turn down an offer from UCLA for a midmajor school'. Don't believe me, there was an article in ESPN the Magazine a few years back after he blew up where he said as much.

I don't mean to turn this into a pissing contest, but here's the section of that article that mentions Creighton.

He mastered the classic old-man tricks (living off midrange bank shots, bumping defenders to create space) that he picked up watching his dad's friends at the park. He was more Chris Duhon than Chris Paul. Going into his senior season in high school, in 2005, the only programs that wanted him were those built on IQ over athleticism: Kent State, Creighton, San Diego. But that winter he grew to 6-1. Then he had a 51-point night. Then he had his first jam ever, on a breakaway against rival Hawthorne, no less. Only after he led Leuzinger to the state regional quarterfinals did the big-time programs -- UCLA, Kansas and Wake Forest -- make offers, thinking Westbrook might be a solid defensive stopper.

Westbrook leaned toward the mid-major offers. At UCLA he'd be fourth on the depth chart, behind Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo and Josh Shipp. He wanted to be a star. But his parents wanted him to get that UCLA diploma. Westwood it was.

It obviously says Westbrook was considering Creighton as a possibility but it never says his dad broke his heart by telling him he had to attend UCLA. In fact, the ESPN article never even mentions that CU was his first choice.

[SB Shock]

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[RandomJaysFan]

Well I'm guessing we're going with the 'this league is too tough talentwise for you to compete' theme and not the 'don't get all happy it's a half step above the MVC' theme, so I'll respond in kind.

I spent a little time this week talking to Bearcat fans on the Cincinnati board. One of them said to me they thought McD had more basketball IQ than their entire team.

Think about that for a minute. This is a mid-level BE team that qualified for the Tourney.

Sure they have all kinds of jumpers and bangers and above-the-rim players. The problem is they, like St Johns and Providence and a ton of other BE teams I've seen play this year, forgot to recruit anything else. Like, a shooter or two. Or someone who knows that you don't throw an alley oop from half court when a simple pass will get you a layup. Or a 35% 3pt shooter who realizes that shooting a contested 3 seven seconds into the shot clock (in a Malcolmesque way) might not be the best use of your possession. The Big East has some atrocious basketball IQ guys. And it's not just them, it's all of the Big 6 schools. It's as if everyone wants to be LeBron these days even though they can't.

There's no reason that they can't be beaten with a somewhat more athletically talented mirror image of what we do now. Heck they can be beaten, and relatively regularly, with exactly what we have now.

There will be no threads on the Underground about how we're trying for Rip Hamilton, and no lamenting Otto Porter getting away. Our team will play similarly to the way we do now, and in doing so we'll be going up against the Notre Dames of the world for recruits, who play basically the same sort of game, and not Kentucky or Kansas or anyone else.

And I'll let Cold blow soda through his nose laughing at the idea of us even recruiting against them. Go for it.


Think of it this way: our teams over the last 10 years - the ones that finished in the top 4 in the Valley every year - would have been good enough to finish third or fourth in the league with our better ones and seventh or so with our lesser ones. And that's with the same guys.

If we even have a modest talent increase, our good years would have us with a shot at contending and our lesser ones will still be, say, sixth.

I don't know about you but I'll take that fate.

[RandomJaysFan]

jdshock - Touche. Then that's not the one where he said that.

It's an honest mistake because a different article I read where he said he was coming here, and that his dad was a huge UCLA fan and wanted him to go there, and they likely ran together in my mind.

Regardless, losing him wasn't the point I was trying to make, it was near misses with good players might turn into hits.

[C0|dB|00ded]

You just don't understand.

It isn't about the new catholic league being "better" or "worse" than the MVC, it is completely different. Several of the teams coming to the new catholic league played in one of the best leagues in the country. The best leagues in the country recruit the biggest, fastest athletes in the country. Sure a mid-major team like BJ can beat an athletic BCS team like GTown when BJ shoots out of its ass. But day in and day out BJ is going to get hammered. Do you not think that GTown could recruit all the "geniuses" that currently play for BJ if they wanted to? EL OH EL!

It's a different ball-game and the mid-major upset routine that schools like BJ and NIU employ against talented, athletic teams ain't gonna fly. You are going to have to recruit "their" type of players and you aren't going to get the best of "their" type of players. You are going to get the scraps.

Now, if you were in the MVC and you occasionally played a BCS team, sure you can beat them. But it's a whole different ball game when you are in their conference. That's why BJ is getting confused when we talk like the new league isn't really that "good" yet BJ could still be a cellar dweller. The "rules" are different between the two leagues. If the league starts to act more like a mid-major (which I think it eventually will) BJ will be in better shape than if the GTowns and Nova's continue to maintain their BCS status (which I think they won't). This will take time though for those programs to be devalued. In the meantime I suspect BJ will experience pain.


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[SB Shock]

So either he couldn't recruit those type of guys to play in that conference. Or, he couldn't coach those types of recruits to play well in that conference. So, I guess I don't know why you would expect something different now.

are you saying 18-46 record of Greg McDermott in the B12 record is warning sign?

[MoValley John]

Here's an idea, how about ending the Creighton discussion for a few days? I mean, there is a Shocker basketball game to be played tomorrow. There is plenty to discuss about Creighton, but it can wait.

[RandomJaysFan]

Well, we're going to find out. If Cold is right it's curtains for us, since that's the angle we're taking.

[cujays]

The majority of the points are all valid...the funny part is watching Cold give his reasons we won't complete on a nightly basis and when he does he directly is saying teams like CU and WSU aren't as good as BCS teams day in and day out. Basically agreeing with what us MVC fans have disagreed with for years. That the top MVC teams could compete with BCS leagues outside of the Kentucky, Duke and UNC's of the world.

[tw805]

I don't care if I get flamed for this: All of this vitriol for Crieighton jumping leagues is pure jealousy. I would kill to switch places with them, and so would every objective person in his or her right mind.

Who cares what they spend and who they recruit now? Are we really contending that with this new upgrade they don't have the opportunity to correct this? Would the same people contend that WSU has no chance to compete in the Big East?

These arguments that imply that it would somehow be better to remain a big fish in a little pond are disingenuous. The small ponds are being drained at an alarming rate.

[60Shock]

My final words on this topic are - Good luck, CU. I wish you success in the new BB conference, and I only wish we were joining you!

[C0|dB|00ded]

I don't care if I get flamed for this: All of this vitriol for Crieighton jumping leagues is pure jealousy. I would kill to switch places with them, and so would every objective person in his or her right mind.

Who cares what they spend and who they recruit now? Are we really contending that with this new upgrade they don't have the opportunity to correct this? Would the same people contend that WSU has no chance to compete in the Big East?

These arguments that imply that it would somehow be better to remain a big fish in a little pond are disingenuous. The small ponds are being drained at an alarming rate.

Hell I would kill to go anywhere. I am just sick of the MVC. I am sick of the way the MVC is run. I am sick of all the hot shooting, corn-fed, non-athletic ball players.

I think there is no question that BJ should go. They really don't have a choice in the matter. Neither would we. I'm just saying that the dynamics are different when you actually try to become a BCS team in a BCS league versus playing them out of conference. BJ can get hyped up for a game against Duke and actually win. But if they are in Duke's conference they are going to get ****-hammered every year. It has to do with a lot of variables not the least important how the players view the game. If BJ played GTown this year they would be absolutely hyped out of their minds (think White-Out for the Shockers x 3). But playing in a league with GTown will eventually be ho-hum. Without having players as good as GTown, that scenario ends in a blood bath.

I have already stated that I think WSU would be in better position to compete because of our standing resources (before the new money) as well as Gregg Marshall - the recruiting machine. I have no faith in Chewbacca's abilities.

P.S.

Whatever league BJ is going to.. it ain't the Big East so stop calling it that. The brand name they bought is as hollow as Captain Hook's peg leg.


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