Paul Mills Not Hot Seat

[WuDrWu]

I have a question. Does anyone know how much each Shocker player gets for NIL? And does anyone know what other schools in the American offer and where do the Shockers fit?

I have rough numbers for Creighton and UNO. Its very interesting because each Bluejay gets $150,000 plus the use of a car, while the entire Maverick team splits $100,000 with no car. Creighton fits in the top third of the BE in NIL, while UNO is top half of the Summit. Both teams NIL distribution seems to correlate closely to how they finish in their respective conferences.

It probably would help to know NIL at WSU and know how it fits in with the rest of the American as A benchmark to how the coaching staff is doing.

MVJ, how do you "feel" about that? I'm just curious to know from someone that is as connected as you are but with a history of a pragmatic view of athletics. I value your opinion.

That's a big number. Just as a quick comparison, OU football was in the 75-100k for non star interior linemen (not that the comparison matters). If I crunch a little, and assume "big" donors pick up half the bill, you need 2000 donors at $50/month to pick up the other half. Every month. 4000 at $25. That's awfully good support (CU certainly has been good for a long time and support there is strong and they have a wealthy fan base) for people likely to also be picking up the athletic department bill (SASO).

[shock]

It hasn't been done because its rare yes .. don't mean that its a cause and effect thing. You are unlikely to find another example of a school that normally makes the tourney that has replaced all 3. Heck, its rare for ANY school to replace all 3. This is like one of those odd ball stats. "Man you just can't make the tourney year one if you replace your president on a thursday, fired your AD on a Wednesday, then hire a new AD 3 Tuesdays after and have the popcorn machine run out of popcorn at 7:32 pm on your first gameday! No school has ever made the tourney after that happened". While technically true, its also true it just doesn't happen at all. So its really hard to say those are the reasons its "impossible" to make the tourney.

I gave an example of one that replaced 2 of the 3 and still made the tourney. Its also a school that just this offseason that said they had lower NIL resources than us. You have provided no other examples of schools that have had to do it, let alone one from a school that has a history of making the tourney (because its irrelevant if they miss the tourney after doing it if they never made it before anyways).

Also to be clear, i was never expecting to make the tourney not matter what coach we had... that was a criteria you tossed in. But I sure expected us to be getting better as we went along year one.

To be clear, I just tossed it the tournament as an arbitrary “finish line” that was somewhat equal across all sports. I did not think you had those expectations. I think you and I had similar “best case scenario” hopes.

Where we differ is now that Mills is falling short of our hopes, for you the sky is falling and for me I somewhat expected it to come crashing down in the first season and am willing to wait and see how he reacts. I believe I had us at 9 wins at the start of the season and could live with it IF there were signs of improvement over IB, which there are. My benchmark for “sky is falling” is when we are going through this- next year.

Marshall had a season like this Shaqs senior year. Yes, they won a LOT of games, and on the surface it was wildly successful, but under the surface was boiling turmoil. Marshall lost that team. They completely overruled him and told him they were not going to play his defense and they were going to be an offensive first team. He should have pulled all their scholarships. Mills is at a similar crossroad. These guys are not buying in. They are not playing the way he wants. There is little care. He needs to pull all their scholarships, but since you can’t do that mid season I’m willing to wait.

[MoValley John]

I'm not sure Marshall could coach in the NIL and free transfer era. Not a knock on Marshall, Saban lost his way, as have many coaches. The adaption curve to coaching in this environment is huge and the necessity of coddling players is immense.

The interesting thing is that coaches are not given the time to build programs anymore, fans think that coaches should be able to build a roster immediately. Coach Prime is not helping with this mentality. I don't know the answers.

[Ashockalypse]

To be clear, I just tossed it the tournament as an arbitrary “finish line” that was somewhat equal across all sports. I did not think you had those expectations. I think you and I had similar “best case scenario” hopes.

Where we differ is now that Mills is falling short of our hopes, for you the sky is falling and for me I somewhat expected it to come crashing down in the first season and am willing to wait and see how he reacts. I believe I had us at 9 wins at the start of the season and could live with it IF there were signs of improvement over IB, which there are. My benchmark for “sky is falling” is when we are going through this- next year.

Marshall had a season like this Shaqs senior year. Yes, they won a LOT of games, and on the surface it was wildly successful, but under the surface was boiling turmoil. Marshall lost that team. They completely overruled him and told him they were not going to play his defense and they were going to be an offensive first team. He should have pulled all their scholarships. Mills is at a similar crossroad. These guys are not buying in. They are not playing the way he wants. There is little care. He needs to pull all their scholarships, but since you can’t do that mid season I’m willing to wait.

A sentence that starts out “Marshall had a season like this…” Totally deranged- head up a$$ statement.. only to be upstaged by “on the surface it was wildly successful” and then your finale… “he lost the team”… Congrats! New rival for dumbest effing statements in Shockernet history! Mark it, this is going to be the worst team since the Cohen Thompson extravaganza but I’m not blaming it all on mills. This is where IB would have been. But no! Do not revise history with your Marshall derangement syndrome. Give me that team now.

[WuShock16]

I'm not sure Marshall could coach in the NIL and free transfer era. Not a knock on Marshall, Saban lost his way, as have many coaches. The adaption curve to coaching in this environment is huge and the necessity of coddling players is immense.

The interesting thing is that coaches are not given the time to build programs anymore, fans think that coaches should be able to build a roster immediately. Coach Prime is not helping with this mentality. I don't know the answers.

I want to see the alternate universe where 3G is able to stay at WSU. For many reasons, but in this particular case, I’m curious if he could have kept the big money people engaged to support the program. Gregg had a great relationship with Charles Koch and Tom Devlin. Maybe he could have convinced them to go toe-to-toe with Memphis in the NIL game.

[shock]

A sentence that starts out “Marshall had a season like this…” Totally deranged- head up a$$ statement.. only to be upstaged by “on the surface it was wildly successful” and then your finale… “he lost the team”… Congrats! New rival for dumbest effing statements in Shockernet history! Mark it, this is going to be the worst team since the Cohen Thompson extravaganza but I’m not blaming it all on mills. This is where IB would have been. But no! Do not revise history with your Marshall derangement syndrome. Give me that team now.

…. What? You think I of all people have Marshall derangement syndrome? That team gave TP and his daddy the ammo they used to poison the well.

[shock]

I want to see the alternate universe where 3G is able to stay at WSU. For many reasons, but in this particular case, I’m curious if he could have kept the big money people engaged to support the program. Gregg had a great relationship with Charles Koch and Tom Devlin. Maybe he could have convinced them to go toe-to-toe with Memphis in the NIL game.

Did Trump get reelected and pelosi go to prison in that one too? Sign me up, sounds like heaven.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I have a question. Does anyone know how much each Shocker player gets for NIL? And does anyone know what other schools in the American offer and where do the Shockers fit?

I have rough numbers for Creighton and UNO. Its very interesting because each Bluejay gets $150,000 plus the use of a car, while the entire Maverick team splits $100,000 with no car. Creighton fits in the top third of the BE in NIL, while UNO is top half of the Summit. Both teams NIL distribution seems to correlate closely to how they finish in their respective conferences.

It probably would help to know NIL at WSU and know how it fits in with the rest of the American as A benchmark to how the coaching staff is doing.

Hush. Every BJ player doesn't get $150k per LMFAO. Half the team is mid-major at best. The "stars" would be in the $100k range, but not the 2nd string on down. Welcome back MVJ!

[C0|dB|00ded]

I am not and have not moved the goal posts. I have said from the beginning that this season was going to be excruciating.

If you have never torn a dept down and rebuilt it, it can be incredibly difficult. For the past 6 years I’ve been involved in tearing an entire company down to the studs and rebuilding it. I took a break a few years ago for about 14 months during Covid (for those who know some about my job history). For the past two years I’ve been in every interview from C suite to janitorial, and for the last 6 months I have taken control of an entire department and rebuilt it from the ground up. I have seen it all, from the rot that festers and what it takes to rip it out, to people who turn a burner on a propane stove without lighting it after they’ve been fired and have to move out of company housing. Luckily, and through careful separation of wheat and chaff, we now have a very stable company that is growing and expanding healthily and fiscally responsible again.

Here are the challenges Mills is facing, some of which are unique and some of which every coach deals with:
Brand new athletic dept leadership;
Peers (head coaches) who are also brand new to WSU;
A university President who is relatively new;
leadership and an athletic dept without an established culture;
a fan base that by and large was kicked to the curb by previous leadership and hasn’t come back to the table;
Donors who have been spurned and are slow to re-engage;
An NIL that was a year late in getting off the ground and appears to be lackluster at best;
taking over a program that had a supreme lack of institutional control;
recruiting players to a place that players don’t want to come to, for prices well below average;
coaching player s who don’t want to be coached.
And much much more

It takes time to earn trust of good players. Mills didn’t have time, so he got desperate players. Expecting him to build relationships with recruits in 3 weeks without being able to buy his way in is crazy. He is not Penny. Penny got high level recruits because of who he is and who he knows. Penny got the players he has now because he has no scruples. Paul Mills is not ever going to ever be on that level as a recruiter.

UNT has a stable athletic dept, stable donors, and turned over a stable program to a hire from within who was believed img by players and recruits alike. Regardless of what he had to replace on the court, the situation was already years ahead of where WSU was when mills took the job.

Penny stepped in after Tubby and used his notoriety coupled with his lack of scruples and brought in big name after big name. This is happening less and less because now he is on a more even playing field with paying players and has shown that he absolutely cannot develop players, and he is now getting highly talented players with highly questionable morals. The U of M ship is sinking.

The reason people are saying give mills time is because they recognize the challenges he has that few other coaches and programs have. He has been tasked with everything from building the building to buying the furniture, much less putting (quality) butts in the bench. This program was razed. If he was stepping in after GM retired, and was handed the key to the Ferarri, sure, he would be expected to win from day 1. That’s not the case. The car Mills got was wrecked and stripped and burned to the ground. Rebuilding that takes time. That is the reality.

Hey Mr. Alaskan Captain of Industry Executive SIR! Next time don't drink and post. Cringy!

[C0|dB|00ded]

I want to see the alternate universe where 3G is able to stay at WSU. For many reasons, but in this particular case, I’m curious if he could have kept the big money people engaged to support the program. Gregg had a great relationship with Charles Koch and Tom Devlin. Maybe he could have convinced them to go toe-to-toe with Memphis in the NIL game.

3G was trending down unfortunately. The ghost of Bobby Knight was hot on his tail. That being said, Gregg Marshall recruiting WITH folding money to give? He. Would. Be. Lethal.

Wish he was still here. GD I wish he was still here. He deserves to be here until he retires.

[JVShocker]

[QUOTE=MoValley John;n1420859]the necessity of coddling players is immense.

This x 100000000000000000000000

[MoValley John]

Hush. Every BJ player doesn't get $150k per LMFAO. Half the team is mid-major at best. The "stars" would be in the $100k range, but not the 2nd string on down. Welcome back MVJ!

Nice work, Cold! My numbers come from the horses mouth. That said, UNO is trying, but they're UNO. I'm thinking about attending a few UNO hockey games. UNO's NIL comes mainly by individual donors, not a lot of blood in that turnip. A local beer dist. created a beer for UNO, haven't seen it on the shelves or tasted it. If the Shocks don't have a beer, maybe they need one. You could come up with a wheat beer with some play on the Shocker name. Here's a link regarding the UNO beer, it's interesting.

https://www.wowt.com/2023/10/28/omaha-collective-brews-up-competition-nil-support-maverick-athletes/

[WstateU]

Nice work, Cold! My numbers come from the horses mouth. That said, UNO is trying, but they're UNO. I'm thinking about attending a few UNO hockey games. UNO's NIL comes mainly by individual donors, not a lot of blood in that turnip. A local beer dist. created a beer for UNO, haven't seen it on the shelves or tasted it. If the Shocks don't have a beer, maybe they need one. You could come up with a wheat beer with some play on the Shocker name. Here's a link regarding the UNO beer, it's interesting.

https://www.wowt.com/2023/10/28/omaha-collective-brews-up-competition-nil-support-maverick-athletes/

https://www.cambridgeliquor.com/products/wichita-brewing-co-wushock-wheat-single-can

[MoValley John]

https://www.cambridgeliquor.com/prod...eat-single-can

Nice! Now all you beer drinkers need to buy it.

[Kung Wu]

Nice! Now all you beer drinkers need to buy it.

iim doerin the besht i can ashole