21-22 Wishlist

[ShockerFever]

Well Aargh, when that guy is on your side of an argument, you know you’re cooked.

[Shocker1976]

What era do you believe had the most athletic, talented teams as well as most parity:

1951-1964

2007-2020


And it is incredibly foolish to say W/L record doesn't matter.

W/L records matter but must viewed in context -

Ralph Miller built his record coaching in three Prime Time Conferences
1. Valley of Death Ralph was 220/133 overall and 81/75 in conference
2. B1G Ralph was 95/51 overall and 54/30 in conference
3. PAC12 Ralph was 342/198* overall and 204/114 in conference (*18 victories lost to NCAA sanctions due to Lonnie Shelton signing with an agent)

Marshall built his record coaching in three lesser conferences than Ralph -
1. Big South Marshall was 194/83 overall and 104/24 in conference
2. Valley of Mediocrity Marshall was 261/90 overall and 134/46 in conference
3. AAC Marshall was 70/31 overall and 35/19 in conference

Background and Character also matters
Ralph Miller -
1. Is in the Hall of Fame
2. In high school at Chanute, Kansas was all-state three consecutive years in football and basketball; set the state record in the low hurdles in 1937.
3. Lettered three consecutive years at KU in football (QB) and basketball; in track he beat Jim Bausch (1932 Olympic decathlon gold medalist) in 7 of 10 events
4. Was coached by Phog Allen (recognized as the Father of Basketball Coaching) and met James Naismith (inventor of basketball).

Gregg Marshall -
1. Was a 6'2", 145-pound point guard for Cave Spring High School in Roanoke, Virginia
2. Was a member of the Randolph-Macon basketball team
3. Assisted John Kresse for eight years at the College of Charleston
4. Was forced to resign as head coach of the Shockers due to multiple allegations of verbal and physical abuse spanning years during his tenure at WSU

[Dan]

My biggest Marshall complaint was his inconsistent recruiting. Seemed like for every Tekele or Ron there were Manigault and Derail Greens. His aim was generally pretty low.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

My 21-22 Wishlist:

• I wish I was a little bit taller
• I wish I was a baller
• I wish I had a girl who looked good, I would call her
• I wish I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
• And a six four Impala

[pie n eye]

Aargh’s hate for Marshall is apparent. It’s just strange you never heard about it up until this year. Shades must’ve been in the way.

It’s been there. He was one of the more vocal posters around the Marshall Peter principle era.

[ShockerFever]

That's right. Because there were only 16, not 68 teams that got into the NCAA tourney. Comparing post-season records is bogus. Comparing W/L records between Miller and Marshall is equally flawed. When there are 2 or 3 top-20 teams on your schedule every year and you play each one of them twice is a little tougher than playing Evansville twice.

I don't hate Marshall. I just don't put him on a pedestal, and some posters believe that's required. I've been saying for years that there were holes in recruiting classes and I've been commenting for years that attempting to turn combo guards into PG's is a failed effort.

Right.

Your signature line was “the future is so bright I gotta wear shades” for half a decade. You must’ve been ok with what was going on.

A pedestal? LOL. Yah HoF coaches typically land on pedestals.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

What era do you believe had the most athletic, talented teams as well as most parity:

1951-1964

2007-2020


And it is incredibly foolish to say W/L record doesn't matter.

[Aargh]

I know what he was saying but he’s still completely wrong. As you stated, the postseason records and results are laughably different.

Didn’t you only have to win 1 game to get into the Elite 8 back then?

That's right. Because there were only 16, not 68 teams that got into the NCAA tourney. Comparing post-season records is bogus. Comparing W/L records between Miller and Marshall is equally flawed. When there are 2 or 3 top-20 teams on your schedule every year and you play each one of them twice is a little tougher than playing Evansville twice.

I don't hate Marshall. I just don't put him on a pedestal, and some posters believe that's required. I've been saying for years that there were holes in recruiting classes and I've been commenting for years that attempting to turn combo guards into PG's is a failed effort.

[ShockerFever]

To Aargh's defense he is saying the Miller did it in a tougher MVC conference and 3Gs record is inflated by playing in a weak MVC. Regardless of that, the postseason results are pretty glaring.

I know what he was saying but he’s still completely wrong. As you stated, the postseason records and results are laughably different.

Didn’t you only have to win 1 game to get into the Elite 8 back then?

[TheShocktocles]

Ralph Miller vs Gregg Marshall

1. Record

Ralph Miller 220-133 (0.623)
GGG 337-119 (0.739)

Winner - GGG

2. Top 20 Season Rankings

Ralph Miller - 7 (High 4)
GGG - 8 (High 2)

Winner GGG

3. Post-Season

Ralph Miller - 4 Appearance, Elite Eight
GGG - 7 Appearances, Final 4

Winner GGG

4. Post-Season Record

Ralph Miller - (1-4)
GGG (10-7)

Winner GGG


I think it is safe to say that GGG was the greatest basketball coach in the History of WSU.

Thank you for doing this. There is no question Coach Marshall was the best.

[Dan]

To Aargh's defense he is saying the Miller did it in a tougher MVC conference and 3Gs record is inflated by playing in a weak MVC. Regardless of that, the postseason results are pretty glaring.

[ABC]

Aargh’s hate for Marshall is apparent. It’s just strange you never heard about it up until this year. Shades must’ve been in the way.

This isn't an exact analogy but Aargh's myopic focus on Marshall reminds me of this:

Robert the Bruce : Now, you've achieved more than anyone ever dreamed. But, fighting these odds, it looks like rage, not courage. William Wallace : It's well beyond rage.

[ShockerFever]

Aargh’s hate for Marshall is apparent. It’s just strange you never heard about it up until this year. Shades must’ve been in the way.

[SB Shock]

Narshall is the winningest coach in WSU history, but he's not near Ralph Miller's level. Miller coached in the #1 conference in the country. Marshall took a pre-season top-10 program into the AAC and couldn't win a conference championship.

Ralph Miller vs Gregg Marshall

1. Record

Ralph Miller 220-133 (0.623)
GGG 337-119 (0.739)

Winner - GGG

2. Top 20 Season Rankings

Ralph Miller - 7 (High 4)
GGG - 8 (High 2)

Winner GGG

3. Post-Season

Ralph Miller - 4 Appearance, Elite Eight
GGG - 7 Appearances, Final 4

Winner GGG

4. Post-Season Record

Ralph Miller - (1-4)
GGG (10-7)

Winner GGG


I think it is safe to say that GGG was the greatest basketball coach in the History of WSU.

[wufan]

So, you think that Marshall in the 6th-ranked baskball conference is better than Miller in the #1 ranked conference? I'm going to take #1 or #2 in the #1 ranked conference over what the Shox have now.

I’m going to take the NCAA and NIT record of Marshall for a sustained period, and it’s not even close.