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Originally posted by ShockerFever View Posttl;dr
Other than the part that Aargh just dismissed Marshall as the greatest Shocker coach of all time. Moron gonna moron.
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tl;dr
Other than the part that Aargh just dismissed Marshall as the greatest Shocker coach of all time. Moron gonna moron.
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I didn't read the entire thread, but was impressed with the lack of thought and memory in the 6 or so pages I read.
When the offense has to be taught from scratch to 6 new players because 7 left the program, and practices are cut short, you are not going to see wrinkles put in. Adding wrinkles to a set that's not fully understood only makes things worse. Marshall's system is complex. It generally took new players well into their first year to have a good understanding of how it worked. Of the 5 starters this year, it was the PG who had to learn the system.
There's been a lot of criticism of coaching for the way the offense was run. The PG would dribble back and forth for a while trying to see if he could drive, then a high ball screen would be called, and the PG wouldn't use it effectively. There was no concern about defending a pick and pop, because none of the post players could score past 2'. Pick and rolls were easily defended. When the ball screen didn't produce any advantage the ball got passed around the perimeter until someone took a forced 3, or someone was intentionally left open to tempt them to take a shot.
That's EXACTLY the offense the Shox have been running for years. There were never any wrinkles put in it for years. It worked really well with an NBA PG, an NBA SG, an NBA stretch 4, and a post who could hit reasonably well from 3. When the personnel to run the offense aren't on the roster, yelling at the players isn't going to make the offense run better.
Last year the PG's dribbled back and forth looking for an opening. They didn't find an opening, called for a high ball screen, which was blown up by either a bad screen or a wide use of it. Then they passed the ball around the perimeter until someone took a jacked 3. There's a lot of demand for holding the players accountable when they make mistakes. How'd that work out last year? Half the team left the program.
Midtgaard just went up against an AA post who's a candidate for national PoY and had a respectable game.
Sherfield didn't dribble back and forth for 15 seconds in Nevada's offense.
Burton was used effectively by TT - role player wing.
That kind of blows up the theory that Marshall was a master recruiter and adjusted his game plans to the strengths of the players he recruited. He didn't. He ran the same thing that worked when he had VanVleet, Baker, Early and (yes) Orukpe, who allowed Fred and Ron to gamble on D.
Narshall is the winningest coach in WSU history, but he's not near Ralph Miller's level. Miller coached in the #1 conference in the country. Marshall took a pre-season top-10 program into the AAC and couldn't win a conference championship. IB took a team picked 7th in the league (not the nation) and won a conference championship. SN'ers are complaining that the team played offense EXACTLY the way the tam played offense under Marshall.
Back to the original topic. We need a long and athletic post. Preferably a Fr. We've got one (maybe two) years to develop that player before he's needed for significant minutes. We need a PG in the worst possible way. From the recruiting last year I thought the staff thought Chaunce could be groomed as a PG. Multiple years of recruiting "combo guards" who "could play" point have not produced good results.
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Originally posted by RoyalShock View PostHis recruiting hasn't picked up apparently, but there is a 6'8 kid at HCC, Matt Mayers, averaging 20.5 pts and 11.3 rebounds in 27 minutes. Last season he only played 6.5 minutes/gm and averaged 3.1 and 2.4.
VerbalCommits shows offers from Manhattan and Robert Morris. Hutch is currently ranked 25th.
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His recruiting hasn't picked up apparently, but there is a 6'8 kid at HCC, Matt Mayers, averaging 20.5 pts and 11.3 rebounds in 27 minutes. Last season he only played 6.5 minutes/gm and averaged 3.1 and 2.4.
VerbalCommits shows offers from Manhattan and Robert Morris. Hutch is currently ranked 25th.
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Originally posted by Dan View PostIf Trey or AG get a pro contract, they are gone. This is what the kids are working for, not another shot at a conference championship. AG is more pro-ready, IMO. I have no clue what the market is for Trey - he seems like a good dude but is pretty underwhelming on the court.
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If Trey or AG get a pro contract, they are gone. This is what the kids are working for, not another shot at a conference championship. AG is more pro-ready, IMO. I have no clue what the market is for Trey - he seems like a good dude but is pretty underwhelming on the court.
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Originally posted by pie n eye View PostPriority one for me is to find another PG. If Gilbert stays I would look more at Freshmen. If Gilbert moves on then I would try really hard to find someone in the transfer portal that can come in and, at a minimum, back up Porter to start the season with the expectation that he take over the starting role once he gets comfortable.
With a regular off season maybe the expectation should be for the new guy to start from day 1. Until I see who we get I will give the nod to Porter because of his year in the program. I’m not super confident Porter can be the lead guy next year but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he took a big step when Gilbert leaves.
My second priority would be to find a big that specializes in rebounding, shot blocking, defense, and catching and dunking or laying it in. The coaching staff has a better idea of what Bilau may be able to provide next year but as of today, I’m not willing to bet on him.
Juco might be the place to find the big man, or find a corn fed grad transfer. Either way, need to find that freshman to develop behind them and not be too proud to take a Paul Miller/JT Durley slower developing type.
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Priority one for me is to find another PG. If Gilbert stays I would look more at Freshmen. If Gilbert moves on then I would try really hard to find someone in the transfer portal that can come in and, at a minimum, back up Porter to start the season with the expectation that he take over the starting role once he gets comfortable.
With a regular off season maybe the expectation should be for the new guy to start from day 1. Until I see who we get I will give the nod to Porter because of his year in the program. I’m not super confident Porter can be the lead guy next year but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he took a big step when Gilbert leaves.
My second priority would be to find a big that specializes in rebounding, shot blocking, defense, and catching and dunking or laying it in. The coaching staff has a better idea of what Bilau may be able to provide next year but as of today, I’m not willing to bet on him.
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The AAC was damn sure not as well-played as the Valley games I watched this year.
Those offenses, across the board, were unbelievably bad. Utter chaos.
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Originally posted by Dan View Post
slice it up however you want, we all knew Fred and Cle, maybe even Ron, were special players when they got here, maybe even NBA caliber (there’s a new word). On this team, we have one of that caliber. Maybe Ricky can get there, but right now he’s not close. He has talent, but he plays out of control at times and doesn’t fully commit to playing both ends of the floor. How he comes back next year will be a better indicator. Landry was a special player as well, he also had talent around him. IMO, the talent level on this team is not real deep. Top 5 are pretty good, not great. The next group all have a lot of work to do.
As for Ron his games were OK before his injury, but he was pretty hot when he came back for the Valley Tournament. He was also a red-shirt freshman. Overall, I believe he played better in the NCAAs than Fred. So during tournament time, we started to really see Ron could be special.
Early. He was special from the get go.
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Originally posted by Dan View Post
slice it up however you want, we all knew Fred and Cle, maybe even Ron, were special players when they got here, maybe even NBA caliber (there’s a new word). On this team, we have one of that caliber. Maybe Ricky can get there, but right now he’s not close. He has talent, but he plays out of control at times and doesn’t fully commit to playing both ends of the floor. How he comes back next year will be a better indicator. Landry was a special player as well, he also had talent around him. IMO, the talent level on this team is not real deep. Top 5 are pretty good, not great. The next group all have a lot of work to do.
Fred played 10 mpg, Ron red-shirted, Shamet got hurt 4 games in, and Cle was playing D-III JUCO. Ricky has shown as much NBA potential as a true freshman as anyone at WSU since Mo Evans lead his team to a .500 finish in the MVC.
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