Rebounding Huge Weakness-

[pie n eye]

In our first eight games against D1 competition we eclipsed a defensive rebound rate of 73% zero times.

In our last four games we have eclipsed 73% three times.

[shocker43]

I know rebounding is important. And the fact that Coach IB has been assistant to Coach M, I know that rebounding is important to him too. But MU and IPBC are not carrying their weight. But the biggest weakness I see with this team is it failure to stop penetration to the basket by the other team.

There was a great article on DD and his defense in today news paper. But too bad the other players on this team do not seem to want to focus on defense. DD plays the minutes he plays even though he is not shooting like he normally does because he plays defense. I saw some hero ball in that game last night and it made me so mad I broke a small table at my place. Fuk that sht of coming over the half court line and jacking up a 3 point shot without running the offense. I say that 4 times. That is bullsht. Then that person doesn't hustle back on defense and lets his man go to the cup for a lay up or shooting free throws.

As you can tell I am still pissed. Go Shocks

You broke a table because of a college basketball game?

[TheShocktocles]

You broke a table because of a college basketball game?

LMAO. Yeap but it was a very small plastic table that held my laptop. The good news I got plenty more. But hey I know some of you all have hit some walls and uttered some profanity during games. I don't pretend to be anything but what I am. A passionate die hard shocker fan. The best news is that I am not married and I don't have to hear from some upset wife. Girlfriends are better than wives and basketball IQ is underrated.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

LMAO. Yeap but it was a very small plastic table that held my laptop. The good news I got plenty more. But hey I know some of you all have hit some walls and uttered some profanity during games. I don't pretend to be anything but what I am. A passionate die hard shocker fan. The best news is that I am not married and I don't have to hear from some upset wife. Girlfriends are better than wives and basketball IQ is underrated.

How dare you! All tables matter!

[pie n eye]

Dexter is another guy whose lack of rebounding is glaring. He was at or above 5 per game his first two years and he’s struggling to pull down 3 a game this year. I get that he’s guarding the other teams best player but is that really a reasonable explanation?

[ShockTalk]

Dexter is another guy whose lack of rebounding is glaring. He was at or above 5 per game his first two years and he’s struggling to pull down 3 a game this year. I get that he’s guarding the other teams best player but is that really a reasonable explanation?

2 points:

1. He was guarding the other team's best player last year and getting more rebounds.

2. This is a greatly changed cast of teammates this year, including the head coach.

[Shockm]

2 points:

1. He was guarding the other team's best player last year and getting more rebounds.

2. This is a greatly changed cast of teammates this year, including the head coach.

Yes, and I wonder if our players, or more particularly guards aren't attacking the boards quite as much (perhaps even heading toward the offensive end of the court this year). Marshall demanded rebounding of the guards, which I know because I saw him yelling at them on the court, and he on occasion would call them out on his coaches shows following the game or on Monday. I would think that Brown emphasizes or at least mentions rebounding to our guards too, but maybe not with as much vigor so to speak. Maybe he does use the same vigor behind the scenes, but it just hasn't registered as much.

[TheShocktocles]

How dare you! All tables matter!

I got to admit that had me rolling. LMAO You are a funny man. Go Shocks.

[pie n eye]

Yes, and I wonder if our players, or more particularly guards aren't attacking the boards quite as much (perhaps even heading toward the offensive end of the court this year). Marshall demanded rebounding of the guards, which I know because I saw him yelling at them on the court, and he on occasion would call them out on his coaches shows following the game or on Monday. I would think that Brown emphasizes or at least mentions rebounding to our guards too, but maybe not with as much vigor so to speak. Maybe he does use the same vigor behind the scenes, but it just hasn't registered as much.

I wondered the same thing about our guards.

Jamarius Burton, for all his size and strength, only averaged 3.5 rebounds last year. Gilbert is at 3.3. I’ve noticed the last two games he’s been much more aggressive on the boards.

Sherfield was at 3.0 per game. In 12 fewer minutes per game Porter is at 2.9 but so far doesn’t bring anywhere near the offensive threat as Sherfield. Porter is a better defender, though, IMO.

Stevenson, for all his dipshitedness, was a pretty good rebounder. He grabbed 4.7 per game. Tyson has improved from 2.1 last year but is still only grabbing 3.7.

Tre Wade is around 5 per game, same as last year. Council gets 5 a game and Jackson snags 4.4.

The biggest big hole we just haven’t been able to fill yet is Echinique’s 7.1 boards per game. While Mo has improved from 2.8 to 3.4, it’s obviously nowhere near enough.

Dexter is grabbing two fewer boards per game this year as well.

So, while this isn’t scientific and I’m not exactly sure how to figure Council and Jackson into the equation...

PG: wash
SG: -1
SF: -2
PF: wash
C: -4
Jackson/Council: +2

Five fewer boards per game is significant. There have been an average of 80 rebounds per game so far in our D1 competitions. Five fewer boards is 6% of all available rebounds in an average game. If we increased our rebounding rate by 6% that would put us at roughly top 50 in rebound rate.

I’m sure there are some problems with my math/logic there but it does illustrate how much we miss Echinique on the glass and need Mo and Dexter to step it up in that area. Also how close we are to being a better rebounding team. Five more boards per game sounds doable.

Oddly enough our rebounding margin as a team last year was +4.7 and we were 42 in rebound %.

[Shockm]

The biggest big hole we just haven’t been able to fill yet is Echinique’s 7.1 boards per game. While Mo has improved from 2.8 to 3.4, it’s obviously nowhere near enough.

You are correct on your statistics and questions.

But the biggest mystery to me is still that Mo's playing time has doubled this year but his rebounding rate hasn't significantly increased. If his rebounding had doubled as well, his rebounding rate should (5.6 to be exact) currently be between 5 and 6, and at 3.3, his rate has actually gone down. He just has to be capable of a higher result than he's giving right now.

[pie n eye]

You are correct on your statistics and questions.

But the biggest mystery to me is still that Mo's playing time has doubled this year but his rebounding rate hasn't significantly increased. If his rebounding had doubled as well, his rebounding rate should (5.6 to be exact) currently be between 5 and 6, and at 3.3, his rate has actually gone down. He just has to be capable of a higher result than he's giving right now.

Great point on Mo’s per minute rebounds not increasing as expected with his playing time. In fact, if you calculate % increase in minutes from freshman year to junior you end up with an expected 5.4 rebounds per game. So, like you said, he should be capable of more in theory.

Interestingly, he is averaging exactly five rebounds per game over his last five games. Hopefully that is a sign of things to come because while, as with Dexter’s three point percentage, it might be too late to get his season stats where we want them, if he can average around 6 boards/game from here on out, it will be huge for our chances of winning games.

If Mo and Dexter both grab two extra boards per game the rest of the way we could increase our rebound rate by appx 5% which would put us near the top 50.

Obviously our season rank is so low at this point we would have to greatly over perform the rest of the way to make that number look respectable but I’m not so worried about that.

[Stickboy46]

You are correct on your statistics and questions.

But the biggest mystery to me is still that Mo's playing time has doubled this year but his rebounding rate hasn't significantly increased. If his rebounding had doubled as well, his rebounding rate should (5.6 to be exact) currently be between 5 and 6, and at 3.3, his rate has actually gone down. He just has to be capable of a higher result than he's giving right now.

One thing to keep in mind is without Jaime, Mo is now going against the other teams #1 big man more often. Teams often do person for person swaps and Mo would be more likely to be going against the "backup" big man last year. Could contribute to the fact that More minutes isn't equally more rebounds.

[1972Shocker]

So, is rebounding mostly about will or is it “just having the DNA gene”? Those two things seem at odds with each other.

Effort and desire certainly play a part in good rebounding as does technique, consistency, strength and timing. Rebounding is at a skill. Like any other skill it can be improved with practice but some will have a higher ceiling, more room to improve or natural ability to work with, than others.

Agree that all those factors come in to play. But some players just seems to have a "knack" for being in the right place at the right time. It's always nice to have that inate ability to build on. A very good example of that is on the WSU women's team Their leading rebounder is their 5-8 point guard Seraphine Bastin who is averaging 7.5 rebounds per game (although she does play about 35 minutes a game). But she is really quite good and quite consistent with her rebounding. That's not an area a point guard is usually going to spend a lot of time developing. In her case she mostly has an inate ability I think.

[Shockm]

Agree that all those factors come in to play. But some players just seems to have a "knack" for being in the right place at the right time. It's always nice to have that inate ability to build on. A very good example of that is on the WSU women's team Their leading rebounder is their 5-8 point guard Seraphine Bastin who is averaging 7.5 rebounds per game (although she does play about 35 minutes a game). But she is really quite good and quite consistent with her rebounding. That's not an area a point guard is usually going to spend a lot of time developing. In her case she mostly has an inate ability I think.

And some people are in the right place at the right time because they work hard and play hard to improve, while some stand around too much, and hope the ball comes to them. Everyone talks about how much energy Clarence has, but what he has is a winning attitude. Why does he have that while Mo doesn’t?

[WeWillShockU]

And some people are in the right place at the right time because they work hard and play hard to improve, while some stand around too much, and hope the ball comes to them. Everyone talks about how much energy Clarence has, but what he has is a winning attitude. Why does he have that while Mo doesn’t?

I think Monzy is a better athlete. He is faster and is a quick jumper. Mo had a little more heft to move and get off the ground.