2019-20 Games of Interest

[ShockerFever]

Marshall's NCAA tourney record at WSU is heavily skewed by the fact that there was an NBA All-Star PG and an NBA SG here for 4 years. For two of those years there was an NBA PF on the team.

I may have this wrong, but as near as I could find it looks like Marshall's WSU record in the NCAA tourney is 1-2 when Ron Baker and Fred VanVleet were not on the roster.

Linstead and Jones were worthless as recruiters. Waterman seems much better, so maybe we can get some talent here again. Defense wins games, but when you play another team with that emphasis, you need an offense.

Either the entire team, other than Echenique, hit a wall or Marshall's coaching style has destroyed the confidence of the very young team he's got this year. The collapse of this team after giving up 9 points in 65 seconds at UConn has been epic. It's hard to fathom the difference in this team before and after UConn.

So Marshall gets penalized for recruiting NBA-caliber guys for your record-keeping purposes?

That was an inane argument there.

[Ashockalypse]

Major assumption: Sampson’s recruits are better

[MelvinLoudermilk]

Marshall's NCAA tourney record at WSU is heavily skewed by the fact that there was an NBA All-Star PG and an NBA SG here for 4 years. For two of those years there was an NBA PF on the team.

I may have this wrong, but as near as I could find it looks like Marshall's WSU record in the NCAA tourney is 1-2 when Ron Baker and Fred VanVleet were not on the roster.

Linstead and Jones were worthless as recruiters. Waterman seems much better, so maybe we can get some talent here again. Defense wins games, but when you play another team with that emphasis, you need an offense.

Either the entire team, other than Echenique, hit a wall or Marshall's coaching style has destroyed the confidence of the very young team he's got this year. The collapse of this team after giving up 9 points in 65 seconds at UConn has been epic. It's hard to fathom the difference in this team before and after UConn.

John Wooden’s NCAA record is skewed because he had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, Henry Bibby, Gail Goodrich, Sidney Wicks, etc, etc.

[Shockm]

I’ll just add the Houston was a dumpster fire when Sampson took over. It took him a few years to get better players and a system in place. He’s got them in a much better place now and is brining in better recruits than 3G. The only thing he doesn’t have is a fan base like WSU.

Sampson also has boatloads of high school basketball players playing just outside his front door in Houston and Dallas/FW is just down the road. Recruiting sounds easier in his case.

[Shocker1976]

Also included a bunch of NCAA violations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/s...23indiana.html

Mama did your google search miss the attached link? Those telephone contacts which are no longer violations due to NCAA change in rules appear to be similar to what Bill Self and other coaches did regards Shocker recruitment of FVV.

[Shocker1976]

Maybe your handle should be Cougar1976.

I did live in Houston when Guy Lewis was the coach but I earned two degrees from WSU and root for the Shockers; so no reason to change my "handle". Just posting my opinion which I think is based on an objective review of the facts and not personal bias.

[Shocker1976]

I'm not going to bite him, just point out that he is cherry picking to the nth degree.

Using Head to Head comparison is cherry picking? In what sport universe do you function?

[Shocker1976]

A key item missing in 1976’s piece.

Nothing key about that NYT article; brings to mind Tark's continual battle with the NCAA - cannot beat him on the basketball court so take him to the NCAA rules court.

Watch out Cleveland State!!!!!

[Shocker1976]

Yeah 1976 you might want to become a buzzard fan since you idolize cheating coaches. Sampson has been run out of 2 different places for cheating but you seem to be sure he’s better than our coach. You’re sucking as a fan right now.

What two schools? Sampson voluntarily left OU for Indiana (a previous Blue Blood) and within 2 years returned IU to a national ranking, competing for the Big Ten championship and had earned the support of his players. You might want to research topics for context and breadth of facts rather than parroting "headline" news reports.

[Shocker1976]

Umm, did you forget about Sampson's SEVEN years at Washington State? Best finish 4th. Take a little deeper look at what 3G did at Winthrop - especially his last couple of years - nothing short of amazing. He won as many NCAA tourney games there as Sampson did in his first 4 years at Houston.
Sampson did win 74% of his games at Indiana but was run out mid-season.
He coached at OU where you did probably have to finish in the top half of your conference to make it to the dance. Marshall finished 2nd in the Valley twice and had to go to the NIT. Sampson had the luxury of the exposure and resources of a Big 8/12 team for 12 years and won half of his NCAA tourney games when he got there. In 12 years at WSU Marshall has a higher NCAA tourney win % and only two fewer wins while recruiting from an MVC team for most of that time.
The NIT comparison isn't a comparison...Marshall has gone 3 times, won it once, made it to the semis another. Sampson has gone 4 times to the NIT and won a total of 2 games, all with Power 6 schools.

The head-to-head comparison is just kind of ridiculous. Your buddy Dana Altman beat 3G coached teams 3 of the first 4 games they played each other. I'll save you the embarrassment - Altman is not the coach Marshall is. If you want to go recent head-to-head then Marshall is a better coach than Mark Few, Jamie Dixon, Thad Motta, and your other buddy Bill Self since Marshall beat all of them on the biggest stage.

Sampson is a heck of a coach, but we have a better one.

I did not forget Sampson's years at Washington State nor his years at Oklahoma, Indiana and the NBA. Sampson built his coaching record competing at the highest levels of NCAA basketball schools while Marshall's record comes from two schools Winthrop and Wichita State - draw your own conclusions about the equivalence of the skill level of competition.

Your choice of head to head comparison is interesting and open to multiple interpretations. Comparing Sampson to Marshall is legitimate as they coach in the same conference and play against one another each season. After three years Marshall success against Sampson is what it is - take off your Shocker blinders.

[Shocker1976]

Sampson also has boatloads of high school basketball players playing just outside his front door in Houston and Dallas/FW is just down the road. Recruiting sounds easier in his case.

Weak and poorly thought out argument.

[molly jabali]

I did not forget Sampson's years at Washington State nor his years at Oklahoma, Indiana and the NBA. Sampson built his coaching record competing at the highest levels of NCAA basketball schools while Marshall's record comes from two schools Winthrop and Wichita State - draw your own conclusions about the equivalence of the skill level of competition.

Your choice of head to head comparison is interesting and open to multiple interpretations. Comparing Sampson to Marshall is legitimate as they coach in the same conference and play against one another each season. After three years Marshall success against Sampson is what it is - take off your Shocker blinders.

There are times here where logic does not work...both of these men are exceptional coaches, but it is wrong and myopic to downgrade Sampson's success as some do.

[Dan]

Sampson also has boatloads of high school basketball players playing just outside his front door in Houston and Dallas/FW is just down the road. Recruiting sounds easier in his case.

He is in the middle of a recruiting hotbed, but getting guys to stay in Houston is easier said than done. The fan support has been pretty weak, only really picking up last year, but still not even close to what WSU has. Most of the top guys want to play at Texas or blue blood programs like Duke or Kentucky. He was able to turn around a program that’s been basically dead since Phi Slamma Jamma.

[MelvinLoudermilk]

Guys I gotta say, I don't know what goes through some people's minds. Some comments that past couple of weeks about "Marshall has no idea how to attack a zone"........until the last game we were ranked 23rd, and in somehow it's Marshall's "fault". Unbelievable.

I agree. We are paying Marshall 3.5M and we are 17-4 when all along we could of hired one of these babblers from Shockernet for about 100K and likely be 21-0....19-2 at worst. lol

After all, they know how to 'attack a zone,' and they "recognize JB's limitations."

that is all

[TheShocktocles]

Guys I gotta say, I don't know what goes through some people's minds. Some comments that past couple of weeks about "Marshall has no idea how to attack a zone", "Kelvin Sampson is a better coach", "Jamie scored 13 in the first half but only 3 in the second so Frank Haith outcoached him"...these are just, umm, below-average comments. Are people just jealous of how much $ he makes? Is it passionate fans hurting from a close loss? Taylor points out we hit 2 out of 16 "wide open" threes, we are playing on the road at the hottest team in the conference, we have a significantly younger team, and we lose on a last second three after the guy takes an extra step. We are 17-4, until the last game we were ranked 23rd, and in somehow it's Marshall's "fault". Unbelievable.

Got to say that I loved your post. You stated "I don't know what goes through people mind" But it reminded me of something that I experienced this year at one of the shocker games. The person next to me was dressed in shocker yellow and black. They wanted to talk basketball with me and I am a sucker because I love the shocks, so we talked. Halfway during the conversation the person said they were a big ku fan and how proud she was that Self had said in the recent article in the paper that WSU was a good team. WTF I was speechless and will not talk to that person again. I dare say that the majority of real shocker fans don't give a dam about what cheating BS thinks about the shocks. But this person acted like this was some big accomplishment because the so-called God of kansas said our team was good. Sigh!!!!!

And that's my point. You never know if the person you are talking too or posting on this board are real shocker fans or what their true motivations are. In time they reveal themselves.There are clearly some people that post on this board that don't like Coach M so every chance they have to attack him, they do. I am not saying our Coach doesn't have faults. Nobody is perfect. So people have a right to criticize or praise him. But to say he can't coach or doesn't know how to attack a zone makes no sense giving everything he has accomplished in his career and here at WSU. Many of us remember the decade of losing. Things must be kept in perspective.

Coach M is an outstanding coach and I want him here as long as he wants to be here. He has been an outstanding ambassador for Wichita State basketball, Wichita State and Wichita the city I love. Go Shocks.