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Originally posted by Zubcut
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Thank you for bringing this up for those who don't know. http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/02/sp...s-alleged.html-
Carr's transgressions were far worse than this. His were brazen recruiting violations connected to the university involving cars, houses and cash. What's amazing is, he wasn't even ruled ineligible and played the next entire season. WSU was branded an outlaw program nationally and it took years to recover from the sanctions.
Fred's number may not end up in the rafters, but it won't be because of this if you can go by past precedents. If this is the extent of the findings, there is no comparison between the two situations, yet I see #35 hanging proudly in the rafters at Koch arena.Last edited by Zubcut; February 23, 2018, 06:51 PM.
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I don't think ANY punishment is fair; I don't hold FVV in ANY ill light. I TOTALLY disagree with the baseball penalty, but that is the basis of my current fear. The totally hypocritical NCAA will use non-P5 schools to show they are "cleaning up their act"; none of the big money schools will lose NEAR what we could lose. I don't blame FVV at all; it's an unfair system. And the injustice extends to how the NCAA will handle this.Originally posted by TheGr1z View PostComment
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It’s so awesome that we all get to ignore rules we don’t like. Even better if our choice has a negative impact on institutions that supported us. -
The questions I answered were about what I thought was fair punishment and whether I agreed with the NCAA baseball decision. I wasn't voicing a desire to ignore rules. I was commenting on the fact that the NCAA rules (which we have to follow) are unfair; voicing this isn't the same as advocating for ignoring rules. And I was pointing out the uneven way the NCAA applies those rules.
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I have always thought that with the obscene $$ generated they (NCAA) should at least reimburse immediate family to allow travel to tournament.Comment
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I always thought my taxes were too high. Think I’ll cheat moving forward. Only seems fair.Comment
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Except that is actually illegal? Not a great analogy.Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View PostComment
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Are we just making stuff up now? Are you referring to the coaches they arrested?Originally posted by ShockerEngineer
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My head hurts.Deuces Valley.
... No really, deuces.
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"Enjoy the ride."
- a smart manComment
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Fraud is the mis-characterization of payments, failure to report compensation paid to players and the like. That is illegal. Making payments and properly reporting them is not fraud, just possibly a violation of NCAA rules.Originally posted by TheGr1z View Post
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Uh.. no? I'm pretty sure you and others are about to pile on me, but I read elsewhere that accepting kickbacks amount to fraud in the context of government loans. Why else would the FBI give a flying crap about it? If it's not that, then they're flushing untold resources down the toilet to "protect the sanctity of amateurism" or something. What Fred allegedly did is small potatoes compared to others, but I am simply pointing out that JH4P's analogy is actually pretty apt if you look at it objectively and take the emotion out of it. That's really all I'm saying: we have camps of posters arguing where one side is ready to throw Fred's legacy in the garbage, and the other half is ready to threaten the lives of the others over it. I'm saying calm the eff down and don't jump to conclusions.Originally posted by TheGr1z View Post
I was just going to comment, but seeing as you felt the need to quote me on a completely new post, I'm responding in kind.Comment
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After UNC I have a really hard time generating outrage for anything related to college athletics, especially penny-ante stuff like this.
Could we end up like Louisville because of this? I suppose, although that would be the Tarkanian Principle taken to it's most extreme. It's more likely that it will get lost in the noise of all of the other violations from all of the other schools. Do you think KU is worried about a few Gs? They got out of the Brady Morningstar/Lew Perkins (*spit*) debacle unscathed. Louisville had major investigation after major investigation for years leading up to what finally broke Pitino. Hookers, 15 second infidelities versus someone utterly uninvolved with the University sliding some cash to Fred well after his legacy here was set. The NCAA is on thin ice as it is. If they try to go after schools ham-handed for this, they're likely to incite true mutiny.
Especially since UNC basically told them to their face that they don't give two ****s about following the rules, and the NCAA acquiesced.
If you want to hold it against Fred, fine. I'm not going to. Fred VanVleet is a direct contributor to us being in the AAC. If you really feel that strongly about it, then I suggest you start petitioning the University to leave the AAC and rejoin the MVC, or better yet, take it as penance and join the Horizon League.
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to become the villain. I guess I've lived too long then, because I have a really hard time caring about this.Comment
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It’s all good man, I just don’t see anything implicating Fred in fraud yet. I am also seeing analogies of his taking 3 grand from an agent to beating your wife and cheating on your taxes?Originally posted by ShockerEngineer View Post
I might just be done with the internet for the day.
Also it wouldn’t let me respond to your comment so I had to make a new post.Comment
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Yeah, I haven't heard a whole lot of detail about this with respect to Fred, generally. That's why I think it's ridiculous how worked up everyone's getting :\
I'm totally with you on being done with the internet... Every single site / message board / everything I typically visit just kind of pisses me off recently.
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Does anybody know, for a fact:
1. Is this agent Fred's agent? Did he ever sign with this agent?
2. When were the monies transferred and for what purpose?
3. Were the monies repaid? Or applied to enhance the agent's fees? Or was the amount forgiven?
4. When were the monies trasferred, by whom, to whom?
5. Was it cash or some other form? The $483 is strangely suspect as an amount, to me. As is $1,070, unless it is the sume of several transactions, like 483 + 587. Both equally strange amounts.
I think the timing of the transactions might shed light on whether this occurred during the season, at the NBA evaluations, at one of the training camps the elite attend."I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
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Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
"We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".
A physician called into a radio show and said:
"That's the definition of a stool sample."Comment
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I, like everyone else, have always held Fred in the highest of esteem, not just on the BB court, but other things he has done off the court to help the Wichita community and his HS, etc. And I still do hold him in esteem.
And although being a young man, he made a mistake, and not one, like some are pushing off as little more than nothing, but sure blasted KU kids for similar errors in judgement, before it came out that Fred fell into this same area. And whitewashing it off by indicating that it is OK, because other student athletes got a lot more money, than Fred, does not excuse what he did, one bit.
Nor does his Step-Father get any sort of a pass for accepting some $3,000, which is being written off as being owed him and acceptable because this helped him attend some of Fred's games.
If, as stated elsewhere, father and son both accept the stand that Fred and others should have been getting paid for playing college BB, but since they were not, then it is OK to accept money under the table. I certainly hope this is not the case, but if it is, then there may be some serious consequences.
At this point in time, we can only hope that:
1. Fred gets a slap on the hand.
2. FBI finding is that NO WSU coaches, AD, or any employees were involved, nor knew what was going on.
3. WSU gets nothing but a slap on the wrist.
4. We do not have to forfeit any games.
5. WSU wins the National Championship.
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