FBI Corruption Probe

[BostonWu]

The balance sheet shown in the yahoo article was dated 12/31/15.

Question is were those agents accounting ledgers audited? If not wouldn't trust...

[KmanTA]

The NCAA screws WSU. I've heard this for years. Now we're mad at people because they are supposed to follow the rules of a corrupt organization that screws WSU.

[BostonWu]

Nm

[TheGr1z]

To answer your question "who was negatively impacted by him taking that money?"

The university has a lot to lose like hard costs from having to hire a team of attorneys to deal with this very high profile case involving FBI and eventually NCAA. This will go on for a long time involving an entire legal team at over 500 an hour per attorney. Don't for one second think many lawyers won't be involved.

Then there's the soft costs of taking up a lot of time and resources from existing university employees. Not to mention the emotional costs of dealing with such a mess. It's draining.

Then there's reputational costs of the university, basketball program, and Marshall. Don't think this won't cause him some distress as we speak.

Then there's potential NCAA penalties, probation, monetary fines and forfeitures.

There's a lot to lose over 3k.

You only answered one of my questions, which I feel doesn't really represent the point I was trying to make, but I agree with most of your response. The "reputation" part is debatable to me, considering everything else happening right now in college basketball.

[KmanTA]

Plus, before I decide whether or not to "shun" VanVleet, who I've had great interactions with and SEEN MANY great interactions with others, I want to hear from Fred and GM. There's two sides to this. I'm not going to think any less of VanVleet because he's mentioned in this report.

[ShockingButTrue]

If true, i'm curious as to how this will affect the basketball program, if at all. Not up to snuff on case histories as far as this particular occurrence is concerned.

[Shox The Revenant]

I'm actually not too worried about this. So far, FVV is the only person who has been identified and the money that exchanged hands is small beans compared to some others. He's two years removed from the program and a distant thought to anyone outside of Wichita, KS. Plus, the media will transfix their attention toward the 'blue bloods' who currently have active players that are on this list - will they or will they not be eligible to play in March Madness this year.

I'm not worried because at face value, there is no indication that any employee at WSU knew or assisted with these loans. I mentioned earlier the NCAA precedent they set with the Corey Maggette incident. My ONLY concern are the wire taps that the FBI has not released. If there isn't a WSU employee on these recordings, we're good as gold. Cross your fingers.

It's ironic, we're a victim of our own success. We've been very good the last 6 years and therefore, the media has added our name to the list of other high profile programs they plaster on TV. If we were a MVC bottom feeder, no way were included with this group. Be happy the media has decided to add our name with the list of others for shock value. That means we're relevant :)

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Absolutely. So he received $53,000 plus some stipend for it all.

The final four appearance made the MVC $245,500. The MVC made that much for each game played in the NCAA tournament. And with a six-year rollout equates to 1.5 million. The national exposure helped WSU create new relationships to raise funds on top of the extra funds from current relationships. It also helped WSU's enrollment grow.
So yeah, the 53,000 sounds fair.

Let's all just run around determining which rules we follow based on what we think we deserve.

Ugh.

[KmanTA]

Not exactly what I'm saying. But I think we need to reserve judgement before ripping Fred.

[Aargh]

Here's a little perspective. There are probably several agents who've made contacts in Springfield, MO to recruit Alize Johnson to sign with them. Fred had a situation that Alize won't have to deal with. Fred had a lot of post-season games that his parents probably couldn't afford to attend on their own.

I've often wondered how inner-city kids' parents end up at games 1,000 miles away from where they live.

[Aargh]

Here's some irony. If Fred doesn't develop into an NBA-level player while he's at WSU, this problem would not happen.

WSU develops players to have NBA talent. WSU does not recruit players who are known NBA talent in HS.

WSU will likely receive some level of punishment (vacating wins is barely even a slap on the wrist) for being successful at developing players.

This is an interesting example of unintended consequences. Schools get punished for excelling at what they're supposed to be doing.

[Shock Top]

Fred achieved astronomical things at WSU and put the university in a place one could only dream of. He will always be reminded for that. He should be thanked for that.

However, if he did break the rules, however minuscule and whatever the amount, that still puts a blackmark on the university. Who knows how severe, if any, the punishment will be, but if Fred (and his family) did take that money, it was their own actions that caused this.

Does it suck? Absolutely.
Do I wish that money wasn’t an issue, so they didn’t feel they had to take it? Of course.
Does Fred deserve to be remembered and thanked for 99.9% of his tenure at WSU? Without a doubt.
What effect will this have on WSU and Fred’s longtime legacy (Jersey retirement, etc.)? Who knows.

I believe opinions are hot and heavy because it feels to a lot of us like our own kid did this. Our own kid who we thought was invincible to such actions. Some people get sad, some people get angry, some people try to rationalize. None of which are right or wrong. It’s just how people deal with situations differently.

Fred transcended basketball in Wichita, he represented the best of us. He made us proud and showed everyone how to do things the right way. That’s why learning this, whatever your opinions on the rules and the NCAA, is so hard to take. We all make mistakes, and we all have to live with the consequences our actions, just as Fred will have to live with his.

Hopefully, for everyone’s sake, that this will be a small setback on an otherwise great run this university has been on; a run Fred was a major part in. Time heals all and, at the end of all this, Fred will almost assuredly be remembered as one of the greatest Shockers to every put on a uniform.

I posted this in the other thread, but think it should be shared here too.

EVERYONE here LOVES Fred.
EVERYONE here THANKS Fred for what he did.
EVERYONE here wishes that the didn’t happen.

If, he did take the money though, that still could do harm to this program. Something he almost assuredly NEVER intended.

Right or wrong though, WSU will be at the mercy of the NCAA for this action and it was Fred’s actions that put them there.

Should that take away all the good Fred did? Hell no.
Does it affect his legacy? Once all the information comes out, we’ll see.

If this is all that comes out, then maybe it will be viewed like breaking the 100m WR, only to have it not officially count because it was wind-aided.

[pinstripers]

I am a bit disappointed, but not a bit surprised.

[WSUwatcher]

If this is true, Fred messed up and he should pay the price, whatever that turns out to be. But it hardly affects his legacy as a player and a human being, it just means he isn't perfect and that he's subject to financial temptation, as are many others.

This is disappointing, no doubt. But as others have observed, there's a considerable difference between (1) a guy taking some money to connect with an agent who might help him get to the league, and (2) a player taking (quite possibly much more) money to attend a particular school -- the one with the right shoe contract, for example. In case 1 it's quite possible, maybe even probable, for that sort of thing to happen without the knowledge or involvement of anyone associated with the university. In case 2, that seems far less likely to be the case -- there's probably a whole lot of slop lying around that to make a coach wonder where it came from.

Hopefully the NCAA, which is not exactly noted for its intellectual honesty and rectitude (especially when money is involved), can tell the difference and act accordingly. We shall see. Meanwhile, memo to coaches: do what you can to keep agents the hell away from your players.

[Zubcut]

Fred and his family just bought his banner out of the rafters for $3k. This makes me terribly sad.

Are you kidding? Antoine Carr is up there and he got caught taking a lot more than this. It got us 3 years of sanctions too.

[Eric]

Nah. The NCAA will take this as an opportunity to bomb WSU into the Stone Age.