Oh, are you? game thread

[shoxlax]

"And to be fair - the blame is just as much on the players and their approach. Players refuse to bunt (or work on their bunting skills). They refuse to choke up and cut down on their swings when they get two strikes. Players have in the past refused to quit swinging for the fences. There is a lot of selfishness."

Well said, SB. A lot more selfishness than intelligence on display at this point.

Sounds like a lack of institutional control to me.

[ShockerFever]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

[William]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

[KC Shox]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

Fever, no matter how you spin it, tonight's performance was down right up-chuckable. 21 k's is beyond rebuilding or however you want to rationalize it. And letting a seldom used 6.75 era guy dominate us at the end of the game is really atrocious. All this while playing at home too. This season is all about being mediocre.

[Hill Sitter]

We did strike out 14 of them tonight. And on the SR question, I'd say our bats last year were a pretty big part of the success as well.

[ShockerFever]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time. Granted, we get the good hitters every now and then, but it's the pitching is what we've ALWAYS relied on.

The pitching isn't there this year (at least not bullpen wise) and thus that equates to disaster. That was expected though.

An entire new list of pitchers. When's the last time that's happened to this program?

[ShockerFever]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

Fever, no matter how you spin it, tonight's performance was down right up-chuckable. 21 k's is beyond rebuilding or however you want to rationalize it. And letting a seldom used 6.75 era guy dominate us at the end of the game is really atrocious. All this while playing at home too. This season is all about being mediocre.

See my above response to Willliam.

You were expecting mediocre and honestly I was too. I thought of an outside of chance of us growing up quickly and doing some great things, but that's just not gonna happen this year.

No one's spinning this.. at least from my side. We're flat out sucky this year.. and it was EXPECTED.

Are we used to it? No. Is that a good excuse for it? No. Is that what's in the cards this year? YES.

[WstateU]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time. Granted, we get the good hitters every now and then, but it's the pitching is what we've ALWAYS relied on.

The pitching isn't there this year (at least not bullpen wise) and thus that equates to disaster. That was expected though.

An entire new list of pitchers. When's the last time that's happened to this program?

Never!

Well....

1899

1948

1977

[William]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time. Granted, we get the good hitters every now and then, but it's the pitching is what we've ALWAYS relied on.

The pitching isn't there this year (at least not bullpen wise) and thus that equates to disaster. That was expected though.

An entire new list of pitchers. When's the last time that's happened to this program?

This pitching staff isn't up to shocker standards, but you can win with this pitching staff, it's really not bad and I wouldn't be surprised if it was good in the end. However we hit like a bad valley team, and the two together just won't work. Like you said before this was expected, I have been complaining about our hitting for years and unfortunately nothing ever changes.

[ShockerFever]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time. Granted, we get the good hitters every now and then, but it's the pitching is what we've ALWAYS relied on.

The pitching isn't there this year (at least not bullpen wise) and thus that equates to disaster. That was expected though.

An entire new list of pitchers. When's the last time that's happened to this program?

Never!

Well....

1899

1948

1977

Nice backup WStateU.. :good:

[WSUwatcher]

Huh?

Your freshman status is showing again, exlax. Coaches coach, and players play, and nowhere is that more true than in baseball.

There are only so many guys you have available, and once you yank someone for not doing what he's supposed to do, you can't sit him down next to you, give him the benefit of your coaching wisdom, and then send him back in the game -- he's done for the night.

If it were really that hard to put bat on ball, the Shocks wouldn't have swung and missed tonight more futilely than they have in over 2200 games coached by Gene. No, this was something special, and although we haven't talked much about it, it offered still more of the two-out debacles -- both offensively as well as on the mound -- that have highlighted this season so far. In the 8th inning, for example, after the bunt fans got their panties all in a bunch, there's no rule that says Lassley couldn't pick up his teammate, is there?

Well, maybe for these guys there is.

[SB Shock]

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time.

I believe if you look at the statistical history of the program it is not that cut and dried. WSU actually has been a balanced program with good pitching, good hitting and good defense.

WSU in it's best years usually has a potent offense combined with a good pitching staff. WSU runs to the CWS, their offense averaged 9.1 runs per game and they gave up 3.9 runs per game.

When WSU hasn't got to the CWS they average 8.4 rpg and gave up 4.6 rpg.

The biggest difference has been WSU pitching staff has been more consistent (less variance) from year to year, where with hitting there is a greater variance from year to year. This has helped keep WSU in the mix (winning the MVC, regionals), but is also why they have struggled to get back to the CWS. Those teams that get to the CWS are IMO well balanced teams.

The first plot shows the runs per game (RPG) by the offense and defense plotted against Winning %. There is an obvious correlation that WSU best seasons occur during their best offensive and pitching years.



The next plot shows runs given up and runs scored by year (With college baseball average per year). WSU pitching staff over this period has almost a flat trend line, the hitting has a definite negative trend. Some of this negative trend is due to changes in bat designs. Some have estimated ~ 0.5 run per game.

Some also may point to that WSU played some very easy teams that allowed them to inflate their runs early in the program - this is harder to quantify. But regardless, the trend is WSU hitting during their CWS runs was well above average. WSU best years in general had good hitting and good pitching.



In summary - if WSU wants to get back to the CWS they need a balanced team.

[KC Shox]

The pitching staff can't carry the hitters like they have for the last decade. It was bound to happen sooner or later, the problem is with this programs inability to recruit or develop hitters for a long long time, with the offense it isn't a aboration, it is a pattern and I'm sick of it.

I'm pretty mad too, but we did lose EIGHT position players and virtually an ENTIRE pitching staff from last year. Need I say more? We were predicted 3rd in the Valley for a reason.

Do we need to rehash these stats every time we chalk up a bad L? This is expected people.

2 Super Regionals in a row after going 0 for the previous 7 doesn't scream mediocrity for me.. at least not yet..

I think you will agree that we got to those two supers on the back of our pitching staffs.

I agree with this. This has been true for most of our prior success. We are and have been for 2 decades simply known as a pitching dynasty. That's how we win most of the time. Granted, we get the good hitters every now and then, but it's the pitching is what we've ALWAYS relied on.

The pitching isn't there this year (at least not bullpen wise) and thus that equates to disaster. That was expected though.

An entire new list of pitchers. When's the last time that's happened to this program?

This pitching staff isn't up to shocker standards, but you can win with this pitching staff, it's really not bad and I wouldn't be surprised if it was good in the end. However we hit like a bad valley team, and the two together just won't work. Like you said before this was expected, I have been complaining about our hitting for years and unfortunately nothing ever changes.

I've got no complaints about the pitching. Consider what we lost and now we throw a RS Sophomore and two freshman on the weekend rotation, they are doing pretty well. Our midweek pitching has been okay as well. The bullpen yes, it has a lot to be desired, but had unexpected injuries to Fleming and Hoch not occurred, our bullpen would be pretty good.

The offense, which has been an issue for this program it seems for the past decade is getting worse, not better. Even our returning hitters are not doing very well. This team probably set a national record for K's in a 12 inning game. They can't get key hits with RISP and two-outs, they can't execute sac bunts or hit and runs, they can't protect the plate with two strikes, they can't fight off pitches to stay alive, no power whatsoever, and our defense sucks.

Again, this has been an ongoing issue the past decade, not just this season with how inept our offense is and it is getting tiresome. It is asking too much for our pitching to win games, the offense needs to start doing their part.

[ABC]

And then, depression set in.

[Wuzee]

And then, depression set in.

If you enlist, can I have your Shocker gear? : )