American Athletic Conference

[uniftw]

I'll take UNI from that list...oh wait they are already in the Valley.

Big East, A-10, MWC, AAC are what to me the 4 targets should be. Big East isn't an option, apparently neither is AAC or MWC without a seasoned FBS team. A-10 for some reason hasn't really seemed to be a target for Bardo and the gang or at least not mentioned. Why not approach them with another "western" school for a total of 16 and giving greater east/west balance for Saint Louis.

WSU and UNI to A-10, with UNI leaving football in the MVCF. How would that be possible? Well as Pissed off Pattie pointed out, the football league is completely separate from the MVC and UNI is already in. They can't kick out a member for what they do with their other sports, so UNI/WICHITA leaving would absolutely plummet the Valley and make the A-10 that much stronger all while UNI still has a home for their football.

that proposal gives every UNI fan raging wood

[RoyalShock]

I haven't read it, but ff "Football Benchmarking Analysis" is the full report, then we were misled.

I hope this is only the portion of the study relating specifically to football, and the rest of the study that was supposed to look at the entire athletic department and conference options has yet to be released.

[1972Shocker]

There are a surprising number of typos for a pdf costing $60K.

In their defense it is marked as a draft.

[1972Shocker]

The document really doesn't have any earth-shattering or hard to get information. Guess I need to get into consulting.

I assume that the consultants provided what WSU wanted at this stage of the process. These kind of engagements typically will have a letter of agreement outlining what will be provided. I have not, and do not plan to, read the entire report but after a quick scan of the report it does appear to essentially be a compilation of facts and data regarding FCS and FBS football some of which are useful and some of which are not so useful.

To me the most interesting part of the report were the case studies.

A couple of things did catch my eye. Georgia State was 1-11 (0-8 SBC) in 2014 (their 4th year) and averaged 15,006 in home attendance (or at least I assume the attendance figures are home games only). Pretty solid for a 1-11 team. However, in 2015 Georgia State was 6-7 (5-3 in the SBC) and they were bowl eligible and played San Jose State in the AutoNation Cure Bowl which they lost 27-16. In any case the average attendance in 2014 was 10,347. Not sure what the story was with that but that 30% drop in attenance has to be a bit concerning I would think.

The other thing that caught my attention was the letter from the Winthrop president explaing his decision to recommend against adding football which included the following comments:

An analysis based on data derived from other colleges and universities suggests that a football program can increase male applications and result in increased full-time freshmen enrollment.

However, the analysis also predicts that retention rates would be reduced and overall undergraduate enrollment would not improve. Therefore, it appears unlikely that adding football would generate the additional tuition revenue necessary to cover the costs of adding football.

Hard to say what the source of that data was and whether it was properly analyzed but considering one of Dr. Bardo's primary reasons for investigating the addition of football is to increase enrollment that will probably not be music to his ears. I was actually a bit surprised to read that was the case as it seems contrary to what many others have contended was the case. Then again he was attempting to justify his no football decision.

I'm sure there are a number of other interesting tidbits in the report but I will leave it to others to mine those.

[uniftw]

WSU is the only Valley member funding cost of attendance for all sports at a cost of $500k per year.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...e86049682.html

UNI is for football, man, wbb, and VB. Wrestling is fully endowed.

UNI is actually FCOA to more scholarships

[uniftw]

Georgia State lies about attendance more than anyone. Anygivensadurday.com had someone count attendance at one of their games a year or two ago.

It was less than 500

[Shockerman]

Georgia State lies about attendance more than anyone. Anygivensadurday.com had someone count attendance at one of their games a year or two ago.

It was less than 500

You can also throw a rock from their campus and hit Georgia Tech. Kind of hard to start a new program and get good attendance with an ACC school next door.

[SB Shock]

I read through it. The salients points are.

1. Decide what your target is - FCS/FBS.
2. If you are going FBS - you need invitation from existing conference. Does not recommend independent at any level.
3. WSU benchmarks at the institution is at the FCS level (in top 50th to 75th percentile) (this included athletic expenditures which is at the 75th %)
4. WSU benchmarks at the FBS level is generally at at or below the 25th percentile (this include Athletic expenditures which is below the 25%)
5. Bringing Revenue without football is greater than 75th percentile of FBS school (meaning WSU is in pretty good shape to continue doing what it is doing - this is because of MBB).
6. Significant university resources will be required to bring football back at any level (university will be stressed)
7. WSU already earns more money in the MVC than it would if it was in the C-USA, Sun Belt or MAC. American and Mountain West provide comparable revenue with American having higher cap.
8. FCS will generate somewhere between 0.5-1.5 million per year.
9. FBS will generate somewhere between 2.5/4/7 million per year (25th/50th/75th percentile).
10. FCS will require 3.2 Million per year for football (median)
11. FBC will require 16 million per year for football (median)

Timetable
2016-17 - Decide level, get conference invite, hire coaches, hire coordinators, start recruiting
2017-18 - Hire assistants, 1st signing class announced in February
2018-19 - Complete hiring assistants, announce second signing class, complete practice year
2019-20 - Complete first year of football
2020-21 - Complete 2nd year (or first year of FBS)

Using Cessna Station will require 21 to 28 Million dollars
Practice facility an additional 21 Million

If WSU really wanted to invest this type of money, why not invest it to make the facilities for it existing sports to be the very best. Built a new basketball arena that can hold significantly more to boost revenue. Know who you are and accept it and just go and be there very best you can be. Unless there is somebody who willing to bankroll this endeavor, a good conference invitation coming - my fear is we will have a shitty football program and will draw away resources from what really makes this athletic department go - Mens Basketball.

[ShockerPhi]

Based on SB Shock's summary, I'm not surprised at all. I figured it would take a fortune and an invite to a better conference, which we don't have. This is why I've always been against football. It could kill our university.

[DPruett2333]

I would love to see football at WSU, if done right. To the naysayers, I ask you, are you content with Drake and Loyola coming into the Roundhose for the next 10+ years? Without football, that's probably what we're looking at.

[The Mad Hatter]

I would love to see football at WSU, if done right. To the naysayers, I ask you, are you content with Drake and Loyola coming into the Roundhose for the next 10+ years? Without football, that's probably what we're looking at.

I don't think most people would oppose football if it meant getting into a stronger conference, but adding football without any guarantee of a conference invite is the troubling scenario. It's the risk of being Missouri State and desperately hoping that football will get you into a new conference, while it is a millstone around your athletic department's neck in the meantime.

If we add football because there is a conference that indicates that doing so will substantively increase our odds of membership (even short of a guarantee), I can buy that the gamble is worth it. If we add football just hoping that it will change the opinions of conferences that already expressed no interest in us, I'm not a fan.

[Wuzee]

There are a surprising number of typos for a pdf costing $60K.

Looks like they initially posted a draft, then updated it with the "final" version. Don't know what the difference between the two is, but it's at: http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/de...t_css_2016.pdf

[ShockdaWorld]

I have not read the entire report. I am neither for nor against football at WSU, because I haven't done nearly enough research to decide if I think it would be a good idea financially over the long run, or if it would actually get us into a better conference. That being said, I'm a little disappointed that everything I'm hearing points to this report as nothing more than a football research paper. We were told this wasn't about just football, but also about the entire Athletic Department and about if we could/should be finding a way out of the Valley. As someone stated earlier, if this entire report is indeed about football, then we were all misled in order for someone to push their football agenda. I'm not saying I disagree with the football agenda, but don't pee on my shoe and try to convince me it's raining.

[ShockerPhi]

I would love to see football at WSU, if done right. To the naysayers, I ask you, are you content with Drake and Loyola coming into the Roundhose for the next 10+ years? Without football, that's probably what we're looking at.

Oh don't get me wrong, I would love to see football too. But as for the "done right" part, I think we'd need a conference lined up first. Otherwise, like Mad Hatter said, we'd just be like Misery State with a ball and chain tied to our ankle draining our money. Hopefully our attendance would be better, but that's not guaranteed either.

[jdmee]

Oh don't get me wrong, I would love to see football too. But as for the "done right" part, I think we'd need a conference lined up first. Otherwise, like Mad Hatter said, we'd just be like Misery State with a ball and chain tied to our ankle draining our money. Hopefully our attendance would be better, but that's not guaranteed either.

But there is the catch 22. If you don't have football then the football conference's aren't interested in us.