American Athletic Conference

[SubGod22]

But it's fun if you stay positive about where we end up. When we get left behind is where it becomes a problem.

[CBB_Fan]

And I just thought about something, if the C7 want their new conference to be the best outside the BcS football guys, and maybe even better than a couple, what better way to do that than to cripple two of your biggest competitors for that title in the A10 and the MVC? Taking Xavier, Dayton and Butler does that to the A10 with Temple already leaving, and taking CU and WSU from the MVC pretty much guarantees it becomes a one bid league. Now you're only major competition outside of the BcS ranks in the MWC on the other side of the country.

That thought gives me a little hope. But it all depends what the C7 are really looking for. That's a good 12 team league and if you wanted to add SLU and VCU to make it 14, great. It would help cut down on travel costs for schools if it were split into E/W. A west of WSU, CU, SLU, DePaul, Marquette, Butler and Dayton would be pretty good.

Right now, what I am watching for the most is to try and determine what the Catholic 7 want. So many directions they could go, but realistically they can only have a couple of goals:

1. Focus on Catholic/private schools.
2. Focus on expanding media markets
3. Focus on basketball strength
4. Focus on weakening rival schools and remaining stable.
5. Focus on geography
6. Focus on control (10 teams max for 2/3 majority)

How they prioritize those will determine how many teams they end up with and who gets the invites. If they only want to worry about finding schools that are close and expand the media markets, they will not pick either Creighton or Wichita State. If they want to be the best basketball conference possible and kill any possible future challengers, they pick up the best teams from the A-10 and MVC regardless of other factors.

We hope that they pursue the second scenario, and if I were representing Wichita State's case to the Catholic 7 I would stress the stability and basketball strength we would bring to the conference. Essentially, the Big Priest conference would become the only premier basketball conference, which may pay dividends in the future, and no future members would ever be threats to leave the conference. You'd have the ONLY conference that would be immune to conference realignment, and you'd probably have more NCAA bids than any other conference (remember, they aren't just getting good teams, they would be taking bids away from the A-10 and MVC). I'd also name-drop the Koch brothers, to show that we have tremendously wealthy donors that would probably be major supporters if the Shockers became a major team.

The good news is that Butler was given an invitation first. Why is that good? Because it shows that the team's recent success and potential in the A-10 were more important than being Catholic. If they are considering VCU, then they probably aren't incredibly committed to private schools either. Right now, I am paying attention to the following:

1. How close the Catholic 7 are considering Creighton (if they get picked in the first 10, that means that geography is not a big factor, which is big)
2. Whether or not VCU becomes a final option
3. How closely they are considering teams like Duquesne and Richmond (if they aren't major candidates, then either the conference will remain small or they aren't incredibly committed to picking teams just for the media markets.)

One thing to consider: the Catholic 7 is not completely united. Georgetown's interests are not the same as Marquette's. Pay close attention to what individual schools are saying, especially the teams relatively close to us (Marquette, DePaul), and the probably leaders in the group (Georgetown especially). If Marquette says they want more teams in their immediate proximity, that is a good sign. If Georgetown says basketball is the most important thing, then we should be ecstatic.

[Shocks2005]

g

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I havent seen anyone say ANYONE has an invite yet.

There is speculation that they are going to invite Butler. But I can show articles like that showing 7 different teams in 7 differnt combination.

[pinstripers]

Any speculation that any of this will be positive for WSU, while not totally impossible, is damned unlikely.

[rrshock]

Any speculation that any of this will be positive for WSU, while not totally impossible, is damned unlikely.

I agree. Only bad can come of this. Unless by the grace of god the mvc is left alone and it stays the same. But it can always get worse too.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I disagree. One way or the other, it could be good. If the C7 stay at 10, it is good as there will be enough programs looking to improve from A-10 to help the Valley, or us move to the A-10. At 12 a couple good programs make the Valley Better. If they go to 14 then WSU and Creighton both get in.

[WstateU]

g

h :chuncky:

[WstateU]

Any speculation that any of this will be positive for WSU, while not totally impossible, is damned unlikely.

Agree... I can't feel any monkeys trying to escape from my backside.

[rrshock]

Agree... I can't feel any monkeys trying to escape from my backside.

No picture?

I have a really bad feeling about this. Georgetown will want nothing to do with us.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Just the sound of that sends orgasmic shivers up and down my spine. With all the conference shake up of late and Club BJ possibly bailing, the odds are the highest they've been in 30 years that we will finally leave this God-forsaken conference behind. Wichita State is the strongest program financially in the MVC, has the nicest overall facilities, and is led by one of the biggest name coaches in a non-BCS conference. We would be a tremendous basketball addition to just about any conference in the country.

We all know the challenges that face WSU with not having football, but each and every one of you have cursed this conference just as I have. It's time to stop acting scared and start being hopeful. I am praying that Club BJ is snapped up by the Vatican Consortium because without that happening, we could be stuck playing a conference full of nothings for the rest of our natural born lives.

Yes, there is a chance this could go wrong for us, but there is a much greater chance that we stand to hook up with better schools in bigger markets improving our prospects greatly. We must endure change if we are going to grow. Don't be afraid Shocker Nation, be hopeful!

I'm as excited as a kid at Christmas!


T


...:cool:

That's strange. I started a new thread with this post to address all the Negative Nancy's and it got killed and my post was moved in here. Who did this?


T


...:cool:

[Rlh04d]

And that is why they are breaking up either later today or tomorrow!

Or rather because the obliteration of the Big East's football situation was devaluing a Big East TV value, making it so the basketball teams keep getting less and less.

A basketball only TV deal would pay them significantly more than the partial share of a constantly worsening TV deal shared with football only programs, or programs that won't contribute in basketball.

The basketball only programs were looking at making little over $1 million a year from the Big East TV deal. They currently make about $1.6 million, and that would decrease in the next deal. That value is diluted from numerous programs, like Tulane, that will not contribute to the value of the deal. I'm sure the Catholic 7 would be able to sell their TV rights as a basketball only conference for more than than the $9 million or so they're currently being valued at ($1.3 million times 7 teams).

Geography matters. So does money, though.

[GoShockers89]

I disagree with the doom and gloomers in this thread. I think that this whole scenario represents a colossal opportunity to better our position in the college sports landscape.

We've been coupled with mostly poverty-stricken, embarrassing peers since the 1970s now. Sure, I guess things could get marginally worse for us- we could wind up being stuck with Wright State, SE Mo State, etc. instead of Indiana State, Southern Illinois and friends. That's like downgrading from a Jimmy John's turd sandwich to a 7-Eleven turd sandwich- still a GD turd sandwich.

I've held my tongue on this tv market argument for a long time- it is retarded. Wichita is a small tv market- yep, you got that right. So is Omaha. So is Des Moines. So is basically everything between Chicago and Dallas- nobody is going to break the bank by nabbing any of those cities in a new conference. They are not NYC, Philly, DC or cities that actually tip the scale from a contract standpoint. You guys realize the difference between having say, the #68 sized tv market vs. the #97 sized tv market in a conference will make a total difference of less than $100,000 in annual tv contract revenue for the entire conference, right? Split 10-14 ways, that is pennies.

Quality of program and the ability to bring in trailing fees of $500,000+ for every NCAA game played ($50,000- $60,000 for each member) is far more important as a bargaining chip than the fact that your metro area has 525,000 vs. 380,000. Programs with the ability to get an at-large bid bring that to the table. Crap programs who play fourth fiddle in a bigger metro don't. The same arguments you've seen thrown around for Big Ten and ACC programs dont apply here because the TV markets at stake don't meaningfully move the needle in any way- and we're talking basketball only, which diminishes what strength that argument has by about an additional 90%. Have you looked at the revenue the C7 is projected to get from its basketball tv contract? $1-2 million per year for each member is TINY compared to the numbers for football conferences that support the "larger tv markets matter more than quality of program" argument. You can't subsidize weak members in large cities with a basketball-only tv contract- it just doesn't work. Ever. The Horizon League is living proof- they have a lockdown on crappy Chicago schools and other big markets, yet their tv contract is almost non-existent.

We are a more desirable candidate than people on here are recognizing. Geography hurts, sure. But in the end I think we have a great shot at improving our situation and joining schools on a more equal footing in terms of athletic commitment. Time will tell.


ETA: Sub's point about our appeal being heightened to permanently kill the MVC as competition is underappreciated. We are not going to become McNeese State if we get left behind- instead we will be the Gonzaga of whatever crappy conference we end up in, and that league will continue to get at least some recognition and pub for years down the line. Preemptively weakening your enemies by taking all their best members puts you in a great spot for negotiating and everything else- this is not something people are unaware of here. We saw a TON of that kind of Machiavellian stuff at work in the dismantling of the Big East, just like the Big East had done to Conference USA six years earlier. We'll see more of it in the future too.

[CBB_Fan]

Let's make our pitch to the Big East. How would you do it? Here's what I would say:

"The Big East should definitely consider adding Wichita State. From a basketball standpoint, they fit in with this new league perfectly,as we are a top quality basketball program with a great coach. More importantly, we are invested in continued improvement.

Let me repeat that: we are willing to do whatever it takes to move up. We are currently expanding our student body to over 20,000 students, and spending millions on our campus and athletics (including potentially expanding our arena, which is one of the best home courts in the country right now). We have some of the richest people in the country as donors (several multi-billionaires) , and they would donate even more if we moved to become more of a national presence. Bottom line, we will never be a program that doesn't invest in its future, unlike some potential or even current members.

Wichita State brings stability as well. We wouldn't be a threat to leave the conference because there are no conferences in the Midwest that would accept a basketball only school and few opportunities to join eastern conferences. Even more, consider what taking us does to the competition. Taking both us and Creighton eliminates any potential for an MVC team to get an at-large bid over a Big East or steal viewers. Currently, you have the 5 other power conferences to compete with, along with the four best mid-major conferences, but adding Wichita State essentially eliminates those mid-major competitors.

Now, the conference with Wichita State would probably go to 14 teams, assuming you invite Dayton, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and Saint Louis. But that is actually a good thing. If you add us and VCU, you bring in two schools that would considerably aid the basketball in the conference. More-so, 14 teams is actually preferable to 12, because it lets you get more teams into the tournament. Each team would play 12 games in their division and 7 outside it, for 19 conference games, and that does two really good things: develop rivalries like a 10-team league, and allow 6-8 teams to have good records without beating up on each other. That translates to more NCAA bids and more money.

Now, you may have questions about our fit with this conference, but I have answers.

Geography? This shouldn't be a problem. The Big East is expanding to the Midwest already, and potentially to the west coast. What real difference is there between Saint Louis and Wichita for a team flying from the east coast? Also, consider the teams in the Midwest already and the potential candidates: Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Creighton, Saint Louis and Butler are all reasonably close to Wichita State. Bottom-line, geography is no more a problem for Wichita State than the other potential candidates. And if you are worried about finding flights into Wichita (the air capital of the world), know that we have also invested in a top of the line new airport.

Now, what about our media market? We understand that we don't have the media market of Philadelphia or New York. But we have the #69 media market in the country, barely smaller than expansion candidate Dayton and larger than the media markets of Gonzaga, Creighton, or even Syracuse. And unlike a lot of markets, we have no competition. Not a college competitor for over a hundred miles, and minor league hockey is the closest thing we have to professional competition. Essentially, that means that we are more valuable than that #69 ranking.

Finally, you may ask what a large public school is going to do in a league full of Catholic private schools. And that is a good question. But this isn't about religion, or the difference between a private school and a public school. This is about basketball. And we are just as much a basketball school as any Catholic university. The way we get there isn't important, because we all have the same destination. And this isn't our first time dealing with private schools; we come from a conference that is nearly 50% private and our biggest rival is Catholic. And honestly, we are far more like Creighton than we are a public school with football like UNI or Illinois State.

Bottom line, Wichita State may not seem like a candidate at first glance, but adding us would be a great decision for both the Big East and Wichita State. The Big East would the entirety of a decent sized media market, a top-25 basketball team with a great coach, a school willing to spend the money necessary to be successful, and both bids and TV viewership that could otherwise bolstered rival conferences. It may seem like we aren't a fit, but look closer and you'll see a similar culture of basketball. We are geographically similar to other expansion candidates and certainly better than a team like Gonzaga in that regard. We may not be your first choice, but we are the right choice."

[WSUwatcher]

Entertaining thread -- I like the "Big Priest" conference. Also, who knew SubGod was such a babe? I always pictured him as a guy in overalls and a plaid shirt.