NFL Kneeling

[pinstripers]

Huge NFL fan, but I think I am done. Just don't wanna see this or cheer for those guys.

[Aargh]

Social media is absolutely flooded with this. I'm a Nam-era veteran. While I can't see any way that fighting that war protected our rights, protesting is a basic right of every American. Different people have different access to how they express their opinions on what's going on in our country.

Athletes not saluting the flag doesn't actually affect my day to day life. It offends a lot of people, but it doesn't affect their lives

I'm incredibly skeptical and cynical of our current crop of politicians on both sides of the aisle. There's stuff going on in D.C. that will definitely affect people's lives. If everyone is focused on NFL players not standing for the national anthem, maybe those people won't notice it so much if 20 million people lose health insurance and we increase our national debt in order to give very wealthy people (who also just happen to be major campaign contributors) a tax break.

[shockmonster]

Social media is absolutely flooded with this. I'm a Nam-era veteran. While I can't see any way that fighting that war protected our rights, protesting is a basic right of every American. Different people have different access to how they express their opinions on what's going on in our country.

Athletes not saluting the flag doesn't actually affect my day to day life. It offends a lot of people, but it doesn't affect their lives

I'm incredibly skeptical and cynical of our current crop of politicians on both sides of the aisle. There's stuff going on in D.C. that will definitely affect people's lives. If everyone is focused on NFL players not standing for the national anthem, maybe those people won't notice it so much if 20 million people lose health insurance and we increase our national debt in order to give very wealthy people (who also just happen to be major campaign contributors) a tax break.

I saw a story on a football team of 8 year olds who refused to stand for the National Anthem. These kids don't know about politics but they watch the NFL stars and listen to their coaches who said the kids wanted to protest. These kids will grow up thinking their country isn't worth supportiNo and standing up for. The divide will continue. The division began during Obama's watch and it appears that it will continue for a generation, maybe more.

[Shock Top]

NM

[wufan]

I very much dislike protesting of the flag and anthem, but I am also very pro free speech. My stance on this issue is conflicted. Currently, I am against the right to protest the anthem and the flag on the following grounds:

Protesting the flag/anthem is a public display against what America stands for. To protest the fundamental values of the United States is to stand up against the United States as an enemy of the people. I feel that this level of protest should be outlawed. I may be conflating flag burning and kneeling and they may not be the same. I also struggle with compulsory standing as a law to be obeyed by force.

Still working through this...

[jdshock]

Protesting the flag/anthem is a public display against what America stands for. To protest the fundamental values of the United States is to stand up against the United States as an enemy of the people. I feel that this level of protest should be outlawed. I may be conflating flag burning and kneeling and they may not be the same. I also struggle with compulsory standing as a law to be obeyed by force.

I think your stance that anyone who protests during the national anthem is "an enemy of the people" is a little strong. What if I take a very opposed stance to a specific US policy? Let's say I was out there protesting every single day opposing the war in Iraq. I'd be opposed to the most public international involvement in which the US was engaged, but that certainly doesn't make me an enemy of the state or something. And I'd have to think such a protest would be a significantly stronger anti-US message than just kneeling during the national anthem.

Even flag burning cannot be made illegal unless it's a constitutional amendment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

And what do you propose the punishment would be? Hypothetically, you'd cuff these NFL players, walk them off the field, and take them to jail? Your enemy of the US language suggests you almost believe it would be treasonous. Are we talking about execution as a possible punishment?

Lastly, everyone always says kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful to those who fought for the rights that allow them to kneel during the anthem. But if we're not going to allow people to exercise the rights what was the point?

Edit: I just saw Trump tweeted out an image yesterday calling for a boycott of the NFL over this issue. This guy is seriously out there. But maybe if we elect him a second time he'll become presidential.

[WuShock16]

https://mobile.twitter.com/koopa_kinte/status/911715150507454464

Posting on mobile so I might need some help with this link.

[wufan]

https://mobile.twitter.com/koopa_kin...15150507454464

Posting on mobile so I might need some help with this link.

The initial argument in those tweets are strong. The follow up tags that it is white America holding down the black man are not strong.

[wufan]

I think your stance that anyone who protests during the national anthem is "an enemy of the people" is a little strong. What if I take a very opposed stance to a specific US policy? Let's say I was out there protesting every single day opposing the war in Iraq. I'd be opposed to the most public international involvement in which the US was engaged, but that certainly doesn't make me an enemy of the state or something. And I'd have to think such a protest would be a significantly stronger anti-US message than just kneeling during the national anthem.

Even flag burning cannot be made illegal unless it's a constitutional amendment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

And what do you propose the punishment would be? Hypothetically, you'd cuff these NFL players, walk them off the field, and take them to jail? Your enemy of the US language suggests you almost believe it would be treasonous. Are we talking about execution as a possible punishment?

Lastly, everyone always says kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful to those who fought for the rights that allow them to kneel during the anthem. But if we're not going to allow people to exercise the rights what was the point?

Edit: I just saw Trump tweeted out an image yesterday calling for a boycott of the NFL over this issue. This guy is seriously out there. But maybe if we elect him a second time he'll become presidential.

Trumps not helping.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

So, I am trying to figure out exactly how to word this, but since I believe it will offend everyone on the Right and the Left here goes.

I guess I don't understand someone saying "Because someone protested this, I am going to protest that" and either side hving a leg to stand on saying either side is in the wrong.

Its the players right to protest by not standing. I will support thier right to do so. I will also exercise my right to choose how I spend my time, my money, and who i give my hard earned money too. And it will no longer involve the NFL.

If you disagree with either premise, I challenge you to look in the mirror. You are basically saying one persons rights supersede anothers strictly based on which side of the argument you are on.

[shockfan89_]

I am done with the league as well. Won't watch it, won't talk about it, removed the app from my phone, and no longer even care if my favorite team wins or loses. These "men" disrespecting our national anthem do not have a first amendment right to do this while at work. It is 100% up to their employer whether they allow this or not, so I put the blame on the teams and the NFL. The NFL wouldn't let the Dallas Cowboys put a decal on their helmets to support murdered Dallas police officers because that was too political but they allow this? I am also boycotting all of their advertisers and hope they will soon see the stupidity of this decision.

There are many ways to peacefully protest. These "men" have the financial ability to make real change in our inner-cities but instead they call attention to themselves by kneeling for two minutes and disrespecting our national anthem. Why not refuse to play, why not actually do something that might make a difference. Instead of using their platform to make positive change they are distracting from the very cause they claim to support. Nobody is talking about the issue(s), everyone is talking about the players kneeling, the league response, Trump tweets, ....

[wufan]

I think your stance that anyone who protests during the national anthem is "an enemy of the people" is a little strong. What if I take a very opposed stance to a specific US policy? Let's say I was out there protesting every single day opposing the war in Iraq. I'd be opposed to the most public international involvement in which the US was engaged, but that certainly doesn't make me an enemy of the state or something. And I'd have to think such a protest would be a significantly stronger anti-US message than just kneeling during the national anthem.

Even flag burning cannot be made illegal unless it's a constitutional amendment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

And what do you propose the punishment would be? Hypothetically, you'd cuff these NFL players, walk them off the field, and take them to jail? Your enemy of the US language suggests you almost believe it would be treasonous. Are we talking about execution as a possible punishment?

Lastly, everyone always says kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful to those who fought for the rights that allow them to kneel during the anthem. But if we're not going to allow people to exercise the rights what was the point?

Edit: I just saw Trump tweeted out an image yesterday calling for a boycott of the NFL over this issue. This guy is seriously out there. But maybe if we elect him a second time he'll become presidential.

Thank you for the counter argument. As mentioned above, I am conflicted as to my stance. I currently entertain the argument that there are other ways to protest effectively, which leaves the argument open as to whether or not this way should be acceptable.

As to the the final pre-edit paragraph, "[if not], then what's the point?" Exactly my concern. If we can't stand together under one nation, then we don't have one nation. If we can't stand together, then there is no point. It's kind of a first premise...we must first stand united under one cause such that we can allow freedom to express dissent.

My biggest problem is compulsory standing under threat of law. I don't think I will be able to get past that.

[jdshock]

So, I am trying to figure out exactly how to word this, but since I believe it will offend everyone on the Right and the Left here goes.

I guess I don't understand someone saying "Because someone protested this, I am going to protest that" and either side hving a leg to stand on saying either side is in the wrong.

Its the players right to protest by not standing. I will support thier right to do so. I will also exercise my right to choose how I spend my time, my money, and who i give my hard earned money too. And it will no longer involve the NFL.

If you disagree with either premise, I challenge you to look in the mirror. You are basically saying one persons rights supersede anothers strictly based on which side of the argument you are on.

I hear where you're coming from, but I think there are fewer people opposed to the boycotters than you think. As someone who wants to defend the kneelers, I end up arguing with people about whether or not it should even be legal. On the other side, I'm not opposed to anyone boycotting the NFL. I don't even watch the NFL. That said, I don't understand the decision to boycott it. Protesting a protest is almost always an exercise in futility.

[jdshock]

One last thing I'll add to this discussion before finally admitting that it's Monday morning and I have to do real work:

All I heard last weekend during the protests in St. Louis was "why can't everybody just protest peacefully?" This was the primary complaint even though 99.9% of the protesting was completely peaceful.

And now we have individuals who stand for the same causes and are using their platform of fame to peacefully protest and what is the reaction? "Boycott these sons of b******."

[WuShock16]

The initial argument in those tweets are strong. The follow up tags that it is white America holding down the black man are not strong.

I was more focused on the flag code portion of it. So many things that are commonly done with the flag (uniforms, disposable items, advertising, etc.) are actually against flag code...thus disrespectful. Not intentionally disrespectful but technically disrespectful nonetheless.