NFL Kneeling

[WuDrWu]

I very much dislike protesting of the flag and anthem, but I am also very pro free speech. My stance on this issue is conflicted. Currently, I am against the right to protest the anthem and the flag on the following grounds:

Protesting the flag/anthem is a public display against what America stands for. To protest the fundamental values of the United States is to stand up against the United States as an enemy of the people. I feel that this level of protest should be outlawed. I may be conflating flag burning and kneeling and they may not be the same. I also struggle with compulsory standing as a law to be obeyed by force.

Still working through this...

I 100% support everyone's right to protest by kneeling.

But that's not to say I like it, or that they should get to keep their jobs. Their employers should also have a right to keep them as employees if they choose, or to let them go if they choose based on their actions, and nothing else. And yes, the owners have every right to get their asses handed to them on the field if they run off every good player for off the field conduct. That is their right.

I have zero conflict. I support the players right to protest, it should not be illegal, and I also support the fans right to boycott and spend their dollars elsewhere, and the owner's rights to fire their asses for disrespecting the flag and our military men and women servicemen, both here and gone.

[Walker]

I'm also done with this nonsense. It sucks because football was my first love, but I can't support this any more. These protests are all based around a false narrative to **** on our country.

They absolutely do have a First Amendment right to kneel in protest. The fans also have a First Amendment right to express their disgust, and tune out. It's funny how Goodell and these owners act like they are oblivious to why people are not watching anymore.

[RoyalShock]

I value sports because it's an escape from politics and the stresses of daily life. Now that professional sports have politicized themselves, especially over an issue that is refuted by data and a "movement" based on a completely false narrative, I think I'm done until it changes. I can't respect an athlete who uses his employer's forum to make a personal, political statement while performing his contractual job duties.

As President, Trump should stay above fray. But he clearly can't help himself from diving into the pool of fools.

[Play Angry]

How frustrating must it be for the handful of vets playing in the NFL right now?

On one hand, you have folks who never served disrespecting the most direct symbol of what you put your life on the line to defend for years. On the other, you have a draft dodger who mocked John McCain's service in Vietnam as the chief proponent of the hardline stance against those protests.

It's Mike Judge-level hypocrisy at its finest.

[WuDrWu]

I never said it wasn't. I just meant maybe at some point people should admit the problem is with the intent of the protest rather than acting like the the type of protest is the problem. If you're constantly calling for peaceful protests on race-issues, but then once one happens you say "c'mon, that's terrible!" then you maybe just don't want that protest to happen. Which, I guess, is fine. Just don't mask that belief by acting like every other protest is violent.

The new weekend lib talking points are out. You don't want the protest to happen.

And you don't want conservatives or whites or anyone you disagree with to protest anything.

I don't believe most "kneelers" know what they're protesting, except that they don't like the President. That's fine. Frankly, I don't care.

I'm sick of being told how wrong "white" America is. I'm sick of being told I'm a racist because I think government is too big. I'm sick of being told because my family has worked hard and lived a clean life and saved money and wants their children to have a better life than they had that somehow that's white privilege.

And I'm sick of singular, outlier episodes dominating culture talk. White LEOs killing innocent black men is not a systemic problem by any measure of rational thought. It's just not. Black men being biological fathers and then abandoning those children IS a systemic problem. Gang violence IS a systemic problem. Let's address THOSE issues.

You want to say people don't want a protest to happen???? Why don't you start with REAL problems, and not made up ones, or ones so small or infrequent that most people will rarely if ever have to deal with it.

[BostonWu]

This will spill over into college athletics, I fear.

You read my mind. This might be my first visit on this particular politics board - only to pose this question: How will this affect college athletics and is it possible you could one day see this occur on a Gregg Marshall team?

[vancedave56]

I feel the protest is misguided.
Protesting the national anthem is like the plants of the Earth protesting the rain because they have insects crawling through the grass.
You don't protest what keeps you alive and let you grow. If you're going to protest something, protest the insects. :-)

We need to start by looking within ourselves, we must change ourselves as individuals before even looking at others.

[vancedave56]

NM.

[BostonWu]

I imagine there are portions of pro athletes that don't understand, don't agree or are just agnostic towards the protests - yet due to peer pressure they're along for the ride. For a perfect example of pressure:


“Like I said, I was looking for 100 percent participation, we were gonna be respectful of our football team. Many of them felt like something needed to be done. I asked those guys to discuss it and whatever they discussed that we have 100 percent participation or we do nothing, Tomlin said after the game."

Basically he was calling out his West Point graduate combat veteran Army Ranger.

[Walker]

I imagine there are portions of pro athletes that don't understand, don't agree or are just agnostic towards the protests - yet due to peer pressure they're along for the ride. For a perfect example of pressure:


“Like I said, I was looking for 100 percent participation, we were gonna be respectful of our football team. Many of them felt like something needed to be done. I asked those guys to discuss it and whatever they discussed that we have 100 percent participation or we do nothing, Tomlin said after the game."

Basically he was calling out his West Point graduate combat veteran Army Ranger.

Alejandro Villanueva is an awesome dude, and I'm glad he had the fortitude to come out on to the field during the Anthem. He is one of the few bright spots left in the NFL and if anything were to keep me watching, it would be because of men like him.

[martymoose]

Originally when this all started I was 100% against it. It didn't make sense to me and I saw it as disrespecting the country. I don't know what's going through the minds of everyone who has decided to kneel. I'll never kneel, but the more I've thought about it and read about it over the last year the protest has grown on me. They are drawing the attention that they set out to draw. Every person who says they're going to boycott the NFL is adding more attention to the protest. Trump is adding attention to the protest. For everyone complaining...they could have all shut up and this would have disappeared a long time ago, instead thanks to those who don't believe in freedom of speech this protest has blown up. The same people who interpret the Constitution as saying you can own as many guns as you want want to silence a nonviolent protest. The funniest part is most of the people boycotting the NFL probably didn't watch anyway or still watch and follow the scores but say they don't. I know for a fact a couple people on my Facebook feed didn't follow the NFL and now they're "boycotting" it. ROFL

[rrshock]

People do have a right to free speech. But, like was posted earlier, their employers can dictate exactly what they can and can't do while at work. Also, i believe what we will end up seeing is that no teams will be on the floor during the national anthem. For the lone
Gets time, teams werent out of the locker room any ways. When I was one school, the basketball teams stayed in the locker room for the national anthem.

They are all bitching about their right to freedom of expression, yet Tomlin called out his player for protesting his team's decision and goingg out of the tunnel and holding his hand over his heart for the national anthem. So this is yet another example of its only ok if you are on the same side with a certain group.

[BostonWu]

I'm quite conflicted. Next to college and Shocker basketball the NFL and Chiefs are a very strong second passion. I probably spend more time than I should away from my family watching on Sundays. I'm on the edge of a total boycott and simply turning off the tv. And if enough fans took the leap don't think that wouldn't make a difference to these billionaire owners and their filthy rich commissioner.

I'm seriously contemplating it. For a rabid fan whose team is on top of the power rankings getting ready to play on MNF...it would honestly be one of the toughest things to drop.

I just pray it doesn't ruin college athletics.

[martymoose]

I'm quite conflicted. Next to college and Shocker basketball the NFL and Chiefs are a very strong second passion. I probably spend more time than I should away from my family watching on Sundays. I'm on the edge of a total boycott and simply turning off the tv. And if enough fans took the leap don't think that wouldn't make a difference to these billionaire owners and their filthy rich commissioner.

I'm seriously contemplating it. For a rabid fan whose team is on top of the power rankings getting ready to play on MNF...it would honestly be one of the toughest things to drop.

I just pray it doesn't ruin college athletics.

I guess my question is why? You're calling for all of us to boycott this terrible thing that isn't terrible. People who think blacks and other minorities aren't being profiled by some cops are living their lives with their eyes closed. The peaceful protest which is protected by the constitution is doing exactly what it was planned to do.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/WWII-vet-97-takes-a-knee-in-support-of-anthem-protests-447684763.html

[BostonWu]

I guess my question is why? You're calling for all of us to boycott this terrible thing that isn't terrible. People who think blacks and other minorities aren't being profiled by some cops are living their lives with their eyes closed. The peaceful protest which is protected by the constitution is doing exactly what it was planned to do.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/WWI...447684763.html

I'll refer you to Doc's previous post that says it better than I could put in words. I respect their 1st ammenment rights, which includes my right not to fill the NFL coffers.

I'm a veteran who can't relate to millionaire athletes disrespecting the flag. I guess my question is why do they equate the flag to the systematic police brutality that they claim? Why not actually set out a concrete plan to wipe out this systematic widespread police brutality? I see no substance to the protests.