Trump

[Play Angry]

The 180 on Russia by about half of Republicans over the last 15 months still completely blows my mind. Obama, if anything, was too weak in dealing with them - anyone who thinks fellating Putin 24/7 for 4 years will stop his westward creep is kidding themselves. Maybe Neville Chamberlain, IV should replace Mike Flynn? It's *almost* as if people aren't smart enough to realize options exist in between TOTAL WAR and total refusal to condemn a country's actions directly adverse to your nation's interest.

Their government has done nothing but attempt to bitchslap us (along with our NATO allies) at every opportunity since 2006, and a not insignificant number of those blows have landed. Courting them as an ally is troubling and means we are ceding important regions to their sphere of influence without so much as a whimper.

[Aargh]

Trump proposed a lot of very expensive things in his news conference today. He's going to massively build up the military and get them new, updated equipment, he's going to help out the inner cities, he's going to rebuild the nation's infrastructure, and he's going to build the wall.

He didn't mention how he's planning on paying for any of that.

[WuDrWu]

Trump proposed a lot of very expensive things in his news conference today. He's going to massively build up the military and get them new, updated equipment, he's going to help out the inner cities, he's going to rebuild the nation's infrastructure, and he's going to build the wall.

He didn't mention how he's planning on paying for any of that.

Sounds like his learning curve to being a bureaucrat is on the upswing.

[Kung Wu]

If he's the nominee, Trump will definitely pull in some registered Democrats to vote for him in the general election. He's got a lot of liberal in him, so this should be no surprise.

However, I can 100% guarantee you that for every Obama voter that turns to Trump, multiple Romney voters will vote Hillary or 3rd party.

Looking at the popular vote, measured in millions...
2008 - Obama beat McCain 69 to 60
2012 - Obama beat Romney 66 to 61

Trump will not get 60 million votes in the general and Hillary will. I guarantee it. Honestly, I doubt Trump would get 50 million. Trump vs Hillary would be a landslide.

I think he got just shy of 63,000,00 million. He must have got a boost from the guys at the Elk Lodge who liked his "grab 'em by the poosey" line. :) This was a crazy election.

[Kung Wu]

What happens if she is indicted?

Indicted by who? Obama's FBI? Worst case he says, "This indictment is unfounded and an attempt by Republicans to keep her from being elected, so I am going to pardon her." And, man will the Clintons owe him big time. In fact, he could do that before she is even indicted, if the Clintons will pay the piper:

"In 1866, the Supreme Court ruled in Ex parte Garland that the pardon power "extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment." [source]

Another blast from the past exchange. Indicted by who indeed.

[John Higgins]

Trump's claim on this issue has a lot of problems, namely that the timeline doesn't really line up.

That's not really important, though. You said that the emails uncovered important information, but I don't really think the uranium thing came out because of the emails. WikiLeaks itself has tried to make an argument that the emails show Podesta colluded with another government official to help "cover up" the story, but even if we believe everything WikiLeaks lays out in their argument, that's not enough to implicate Clinton of anything. Maybe I'm missing the emails that discuss the quid pro quo agreement between the donations and the uranium deal. If you've seen them, please point them out. I'm also open to other suggestions of what illegal things Clinton did were revealed by the emails.



You're the one who shared that as if it was a fact, but in reality it was actually a more sophisticated phishing scheme. Don't act like it's insignificant if you're going to use that as part of the foundation of your argument.



First of all, reasonable minds should not disagree on this: laws preventing private citizens from engaging in foreign policy are good.

Second, this isn't an answer to what I'm saying. I'm saying Trump and Trump supporters are hypocrites on this issue. People said the content of the leaks justified the means. People said that the individuals responsible for the leaks were not important due to the content of the leaks. Now, we have a case where someone leaked information about an illegal action (you have yet to give me something illegal that was revealed by the Clinton email leaks, but even if you had, it's moot. If there had been something illegal in the Clinton email leaks, then it's par for the course, right? They'd both have had illegal actions uncovered by the leaks), but Trump won't stop railing about the leakers.

Wikileaks maybe didn't reveal enough to implicate Hillary, but it sure revealed enough that numerous investigations should have been opened. Quid pro quo was her standard operating procedure. If you wanted the ear of the Secretary of State, you better pull out your wallet. What do you expect to be found in the emails, a step by step guide on how this is done?

Look at the Morroco emails, look at the Haiti emails, it all should be investigated. Was the Clinton Foundation paying $25 million for Chelsea's wedding not illegal? Was it just a coincidence that the money to the Clinton Foundation dried up as soon as she lost the election? All of those foreign donors instantly lost interest in her charitable endeavors, what a shame!

I've answered your question on the hypocrisy of Trump voters, you just don't like the answer. We have a very big problem on our hands when some members of the intelligence community are going rogue, they need to be identified for our national security. Reasonable minds should not disagree about this.

[ShockingButTrue]

• 
  
  Deplorable.
  
  

[jdshock]

Wikileaks maybe didn't reveal enough to implicate Hillary, but it sure revealed enough that numerous investigations should have been opened. Quid pro quo was her standard operating procedure. If you wanted the ear of the Secretary of State, you better pull out your wallet. What do you expect to be found in the emails, a step by step guide on how this is done?

Look at the Morroco emails, look at the Haiti emails, it all should be investigated. Was the Clinton Foundation paying $25 million for Chelsea's wedding not illegal? Was it just a coincidence that the money to the Clinton Foundation dried up as soon as she lost the election? All of those foreign donors instantly lost interest in her charitable endeavors, what a shame!

I've answered your question on the hypocrisy of Trump voters, you just don't like the answer. We have a very big problem on our hands when some members of the intelligence community are going rogue, they need to be identified for our national security. Reasonable minds should not disagree about this.

You're changing positions with every single post. Your initial post was that the Podesta emails uncovered illegal activities that would've had you and me hanging from a tree. Now you're saying that the emails are hinting at activities that should be investigated. Your initial post repeated the same inaccuracies as Breitbart and the RNC when you said that the password was "password." Now you're saying that is irrelevant. How are liberals supposed to convince you? Obviously, logical arguments don't work. Protests get called "shrieking." What else is there?

Regardless, you're ignoring the most important point: even if the Podesta emails revealed illegal activity, that isn't an argument that defends Trump's flip-flop. In the best case scenario you're arguing, the emails revealed illegal activity and the newest intelligence leaks revealed illegal activity.

You saying that you don't think it should be illegal is not an answer. Trump said the same thing in his press conference yesterday. He said that he would've directed Flynn to do what he did.

Your point at the end where you say we have a big problems on our hands? That's identical to every democrat that said "Russia influencing our election is a big deal. We need to talk about it." Trump and Trump supporters kept saying that it didn't matter where the information came from or how they got it. This is literally the point I'm trying to make.

[jdshock]

I think he got just shy of 63,000,00 million. He must have got a boost from the guys at the Elk Lodge who liked his "grab 'em by the poosey" line. :) This was a crazy election.

Clicked on the quoted post to go read that page.

Wow... I couldn't have been more wrong about some of my predictions.

[Kung Wu]

Clicked on the quoted post to go read that page.

Wow... I couldn't have been more wrong about some of my predictions.

Yeah, there are some funny predictions and opinions back there. Kind of fun to look back after a year.

[John Higgins]

You're changing positions with every single post. Your initial post was that the Podesta emails uncovered illegal activities that would've had you and me hanging from a tree. Now you're saying that the emails are hinting at activities that should be investigated.

It's not a hint when the email directly says that Foundation resources were used for Chelsea's wedding.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/52046#efmABYACC

Your initial post repeated the same inaccuracies as Breitbart and the RNC when you said that the password was "password." Now you're saying that is irrelevant.

I don't care what his password was and it doesn't matter. You are obviously very intelligent and have an innate ability to focus on the small, insignificant details while glossing over the big picture. If you truly believe the "foundation" of my argument is what Podesta's password is then I retract my previous praise of your intellect.

How are liberals supposed to convince you? Obviously, logical arguments don't work.

It might work, once you present one I will let you know.

Protests get called "shrieking."

Oh, you call those protests? A peaceful protest with a defined purpose is always welcomed, unfortunately we have seen far too few of these. If you think destroying property and assaulting those that disagree with you will change my mind or others minds then you will be sorely disappointed.

Your point at the end where you say we have a big problems on our hands? That's identical to every democrat that said "Russia influencing our election is a big deal. We need to talk about it." Trump and Trump supporters kept saying that it didn't matter where the information came from or how they got it. This is literally the point I'm trying to make.

The Russia ties were investigated, I'm sure Obama put the best & brightest intelligence officers we have to try and find a solid connection to the Russian government. I have seen no evidence that directly links the Russian government to this email hack, can you show that evidence to me?

My point was that the two scenarios are very different. In one case you have CLASSIFIED information being leaked to the media by our own intelligence agencies. In the other case you have NON-CLASSIFIED information given to Wikileaks by, for all that we know, a 14 year old Ukranian. Do you not see the difference in this? If the Hillary leaks included classified information and were leaked by our intelligence agencies then I believe Trump would be the first in line saying find out who leaked this.

[ShockingButTrue]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/15/nearly-2-million-non-citizen-hispanics-illegally-r/

Where there's smoke...

[BOBB]

It's not a hint when the email directly says that Foundation resources were used for Chelsea's wedding.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/52046#efmABYACC

I don't care what his password was and it doesn't matter. You are obviously very intelligent and have an innate ability to focus on the small, insignificant details while glossing over the big picture. If you truly believe the "foundation" of my argument is what Podesta's password is then I retract my previous praise of your intellect.



It might work, once you present one I will let you know.



Oh, you call those protests? A peaceful protest with a defined purpose is always welcomed, unfortunately we have seen far too few of these. If you think destroying property and assaulting those that disagree with you will change my mind or others minds then you will be sorely disappointed.



The Russia ties were investigated, I'm sure Obama put the best & brightest intelligence officers we have to try and find a solid connection to the Russian government. I have seen no evidence that directly links the Russian government to this email hack, can you show that evidence to me?

My point was that the two scenarios are very different. In one case you have CLASSIFIED information being leaked to the media by our own intelligence agencies. In the other case you have NON-CLASSIFIED information given to Wikileaks by, for all that we know, a 14 year old Ukranian. Do you not see the difference in this? If the Hillary leaks included classified information and were leaked by our intelligence agencies then I believe Trump would be the first in line saying find out who leaked this.

Where are you getting $25million for Chelsea's wedding. $3million (a crazy number) is what is out there. In any event, the Clinton's have been added to the dustbin of history and their foundation is kaput. Feel free to pile on. I won't shed any tears, but it's a waste of time. What steps is Trump taking to shrink the role of the federal government in our lives, the Republican's stated mantra? So far all I've seen is an attempted expansion of federal power, stymied only by the Trump team's own incompetence.

[CBB_Fan]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/15/nearly-2-million-non-citizen-hispanics-illegally-r/

Where there's smoke...

Great! Since this election was illegitimate, let's have a do-over. Now, let's see the amazing evidence that proves 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote:

The little-noticed Hispanic survey was conducted in June 2013 by McLaughlin and Associates to gauge the opinions of U.S. resident Latinos on a wide range of issues.
Inside the poll is a page devoted to voter profiles. Of the randomly selected sample of 800 Hispanics, 56 percent, or 448, said they were non-citizens, and of those, 13 percent said they were registered to vote. The 448 would presumedly be a mix of illegal immigrants and noncitizens who are in the U.S. legally, such as visa holders or permanent residents.

Yep, that's solid proof. A 2013 poll of 800 Hispanics where 58 of 448 said they were both non-citizens and registered to vote. We can definitely extrapolate that out to 2 million illegal voters. But of course, we need confirmation, so let's use the only accurate source of news. They can't lie and are never wrong, so this 100% confirmed!!

And of course everyone that is registered to vote actually votes. You don't even need to prove it! And that of course is how $hillary cheated, because not only did EVERY illegal vote for her she also got votes from ALL the people registered in two states (so they can vote twice for her!) and all the dead people on the registry! It's just obvious people!

[Aargh]

Somwebody get this survey to Kris Kobach. If it was done 3 years ago and he hasn't been trotting it out and quoting it repeatedly to get his laws passed, he may not have heard of it yet. It's the kind of thing he would love to see, so could someone point it out to him?

I am amazed to hear of this first on ShockerNet instead of from our Secretary of State's office. Trump hasn't even mentioned it. The way people who support the results have ignored it, it's as if it never existed until it appeared in the cited reference.